1 00:00:03,022 --> 00:00:06,322 Welcome to the debt to financial freedom podcast. 2 00:00:06,322 --> 00:00:08,382 I'm your host, Victor Lagos. 3 00:00:08,382 --> 00:00:13,782 I am also the founder of Lagos Financial, a residential and commercial finance 4 00:00:13,782 --> 00:00:19,422 brokerage and the co -founder of a new business called Propeller, which is a 5 00:00:19,422 --> 00:00:22,902 property investment strategy consultancy. 6 00:00:23,362 --> 00:00:25,962 Today, I have a guest. 7 00:00:25,962 --> 00:00:28,182 His name is Lawrence Hugo. 8 00:00:28,382 --> 00:00:32,630 And I'll let him do an intro, but I wanted to give a bit of background. 9 00:00:33,014 --> 00:00:39,114 his, you know, his expertise lies in, in debt negotiation, specifically unsecured 10 00:00:39,114 --> 00:00:40,114 debts. 11 00:00:40,254 --> 00:00:43,174 and I've got a bit of experience in this field. 12 00:00:43,414 --> 00:00:48,274 another lifetime ago, I used to do what's called part nine debt agreements for a 13 00:00:48,274 --> 00:00:48,604 living. 14 00:00:48,604 --> 00:00:52,554 And, it's, it's a part of the story that I haven't really shared on previous 15 00:00:52,554 --> 00:00:56,994 episodes, but I think it's an important part of the journey because, you know, the 16 00:00:56,994 --> 00:01:00,464 podcast is called debt to financial freedom for a reason. 17 00:01:00,464 --> 00:01:02,126 A lot of people are in debt. 18 00:01:02,126 --> 00:01:04,106 And a lot of people are in bad debt. 19 00:01:04,106 --> 00:01:07,826 And we're all on a journey to figure out how do we get to financial freedom? 20 00:01:07,826 --> 00:01:13,366 And a lot of my clients in the latest years have been investors, people that are 21 00:01:13,366 --> 00:01:16,166 already in that journey on the higher end of the spectrum. 22 00:01:16,166 --> 00:01:20,466 And I've always had that intent to help people on that lower end, the ones that 23 00:01:20,466 --> 00:01:23,546 are in a bit of trouble because I've been there before. 24 00:01:24,066 --> 00:01:28,814 And another part of that story is my mom has actually been in that. 25 00:01:28,814 --> 00:01:34,114 position where she had over $100 ,000 worth of credit card debt at one point. 26 00:01:34,314 --> 00:01:39,274 And I actually did meet someone who negotiated her debts in 2015. 27 00:01:39,274 --> 00:01:43,374 She had five different credit cards, and she was able to negotiate her credit card 28 00:01:43,374 --> 00:01:46,034 debt from $100 ,000 down to $20 ,000. 29 00:01:46,074 --> 00:01:47,954 And I couldn't believe it. 30 00:01:47,954 --> 00:01:51,914 It was different creditors, different banks, and they all agreed. 31 00:01:51,914 --> 00:01:54,994 But it meant that we had to come up with the money within seven days. 32 00:01:54,994 --> 00:01:57,326 But that was a massive relief for her. 33 00:01:57,326 --> 00:02:00,516 because she had collection agencies calling her. 34 00:02:00,516 --> 00:02:03,786 She was nearly having a nervous breakdown. 35 00:02:03,786 --> 00:02:08,166 And on top of that, she was keeping it a secret from her father, which many 36 00:02:08,166 --> 00:02:12,926 listeners out there understand that when it comes to the emotions we have around 37 00:02:12,926 --> 00:02:17,126 money and debt, sometimes we keep that to ourselves and we don't share that with the 38 00:02:17,126 --> 00:02:19,006 people that matter to us the most. 39 00:02:19,006 --> 00:02:23,806 And that can cause, yeah, some marriage breakdowns, family breakdowns, and I 40 00:02:23,806 --> 00:02:24,814 think... 41 00:02:24,814 --> 00:02:26,974 and even worse, it can cause suicide. 42 00:02:26,974 --> 00:02:30,994 And Lawrence, I think you've got some experience, not just in the death side, 43 00:02:30,994 --> 00:02:35,154 but also helping people who are in that dark place in their life. 44 00:02:35,154 --> 00:02:39,216 So welcome to the show and yeah, tell us a little bit about yourself. 45 00:02:40,449 --> 00:02:41,249 Thanks, Victor. 46 00:02:41,249 --> 00:02:48,549 Thanks for, thanks for your welcome to your show and a great podcast because the 47 00:02:48,549 --> 00:02:53,649 kind of information that you're offering to the community is frankly, it's quite 48 00:02:53,649 --> 00:02:58,669 invaluable because one of the missing links if you like in our community is 49 00:02:58,669 --> 00:03:00,229 financial education. 50 00:03:00,229 --> 00:03:04,989 And if we're educated around how it is that we need to invest our money and spend 51 00:03:04,989 --> 00:03:05,921 our money. 52 00:03:05,921 --> 00:03:10,441 Then we're all the better for it and and I know you're all about that. 53 00:03:10,441 --> 00:03:16,421 So thanks for that So again, thanks for thanks for the invite on the on the 54 00:03:16,421 --> 00:03:26,161 podcast now You mentioned you mentioned before that it's a journey and And I think 55 00:03:26,161 --> 00:03:31,621 that that's a really great way to describe Our life in in the sense where we make 56 00:03:31,621 --> 00:03:32,821 these financial mistakes. 57 00:03:32,821 --> 00:03:34,281 We go through that journey. 58 00:03:34,281 --> 00:03:35,585 We learn from that and 59 00:03:35,585 --> 00:03:38,495 and we pay our debts and then we invest. 60 00:03:38,495 --> 00:03:39,535 That's a new journey. 61 00:03:39,535 --> 00:03:40,645 It's new lessons. 62 00:03:40,645 --> 00:03:45,545 We start investing and we might make mistakes and we might score some goals and 63 00:03:45,545 --> 00:03:50,765 that's a journey and what the journey is about, it's about the experience as well 64 00:03:50,765 --> 00:03:55,785 as the destination and learning the lessons and that way the destination is 65 00:03:55,785 --> 00:03:58,145 coloured in the right way for us. 66 00:03:58,145 --> 00:04:02,765 We arrive in the right place in our destination so long as we're learning 67 00:04:02,765 --> 00:04:05,505 lessons and from the mistakes that we're... 68 00:04:05,505 --> 00:04:09,585 that we're making along the way and, you know, on the one that makes so many 69 00:04:09,585 --> 00:04:11,585 mistakes in so many different ways. 70 00:04:11,585 --> 00:04:16,465 And but the difference for many people is if we learn from those mistakes, then 71 00:04:16,465 --> 00:04:18,365 we're not making them tomorrow. 72 00:04:18,365 --> 00:04:24,985 So you're talking with me because I'm a debt negotiator and we're the first debt 73 00:04:24,985 --> 00:04:26,995 negotiation house in the country. 74 00:04:26,995 --> 00:04:32,465 So we've been running for 25 years and we've saved upwards of 110 million dollars 75 00:04:32,465 --> 00:04:34,785 for consumers and companies. 76 00:04:34,785 --> 00:04:36,905 over that period of time. 77 00:04:37,425 --> 00:04:39,465 Now, we've been working for a long time. 78 00:04:39,465 --> 00:04:44,605 We've worked with all the debt collection agencies, all the banks, major and minor, 79 00:04:44,605 --> 00:04:48,905 financial institutions, got a lot of experience in negotiating with these 80 00:04:48,905 --> 00:04:51,785 agencies for lowered payout figures. 81 00:04:51,785 --> 00:04:56,605 For example, the one, the great experience you have with that debt negotiator that 82 00:04:56,605 --> 00:05:01,965 your mum had from 15 years ago and from 100 ,000 down to $20 ,000. 83 00:05:01,965 --> 00:05:04,321 It's a very good outcome. 84 00:05:04,321 --> 00:05:06,009 So they did very well. 85 00:05:06,894 --> 00:05:12,294 So I want to for the listeners who don't know what debt negotiation actually is, or 86 00:05:12,294 --> 00:05:14,974 maybe they don't even realize that this is an industry. 87 00:05:14,974 --> 00:05:17,834 How did it really come about? 88 00:05:17,834 --> 00:05:22,214 Because I mentioned part nine debt agreements, and that's that's one form of 89 00:05:22,214 --> 00:05:26,114 negotiation, but that affects your credit file, it falls under the Bankruptcy Act. 90 00:05:26,114 --> 00:05:28,474 But what you do is totally different. 91 00:05:28,474 --> 00:05:32,554 Can you explain it a little bit, I guess, about what the industry is, you were a 92 00:05:32,554 --> 00:05:36,522 pioneer in the industry and how it's sort of grown in that time? 93 00:05:36,577 --> 00:05:38,317 it's a good question. 94 00:05:38,317 --> 00:05:42,137 And it's the part nine, the part nines, part tens. 95 00:05:42,137 --> 00:05:46,197 That's that's been part of the bankruptcy act for some time. 96 00:05:46,197 --> 00:05:47,017 PIAs. 97 00:05:47,017 --> 00:05:50,577 And that's a different stream with the debt negotiations. 98 00:05:50,697 --> 00:05:53,977 It's it's evolved over the years. 99 00:05:53,977 --> 00:06:01,877 Now, I remember back in 1988, 89, working for an American finance company, Household 100 00:06:01,877 --> 00:06:03,393 Financial Solutions. 101 00:06:03,393 --> 00:06:07,093 a high household household financial services in Sydney. 102 00:06:07,412 --> 00:06:12,733 And, and just answering your question, we would get, I'll get a letter on my desk 103 00:06:12,733 --> 00:06:15,413 and I worked in debt, in debt collections. 104 00:06:15,413 --> 00:06:20,893 I'll get a letter on my, on my desk from a solicitor and the top of the, of the 105 00:06:20,893 --> 00:06:24,823 letter is torn off just the, the core top corner part. 106 00:06:24,823 --> 00:06:27,073 So there was a check attached to it, but it's gone. 107 00:06:27,073 --> 00:06:32,881 But the, the, the mailing office had taken the check off and they processed a check. 108 00:06:33,089 --> 00:06:35,419 And on this letter is a declaration. 109 00:06:35,419 --> 00:06:44,189 If you cash his check, then you rescind any claim on my client for any further 110 00:06:44,189 --> 00:06:46,369 obligation or worse that effect. 111 00:06:46,369 --> 00:06:51,289 So the check will be say $10 or $100 and the client will owe $3 ,000 or $5 ,000 or 112 00:06:51,289 --> 00:06:52,389 $10 ,000. 113 00:06:52,549 --> 00:06:59,029 And the lawyer would state, if you cash that check, then you're legally obligated 114 00:06:59,029 --> 00:07:01,029 to accept that as a full and final settlement. 115 00:07:01,029 --> 00:07:02,849 Now that didn't last long. 116 00:07:02,849 --> 00:07:07,489 because it was challenged and it doesn't stand up in court. 117 00:07:07,489 --> 00:07:12,789 But this is sort of where debt negotiation kind of started with sort of the 118 00:07:12,789 --> 00:07:20,389 unscrupulous players trying to get the best deal for their clients using various 119 00:07:20,389 --> 00:07:21,109 methods. 120 00:07:21,109 --> 00:07:26,989 There are other solicitors who would try to negotiate some successfully, some not 121 00:07:26,989 --> 00:07:30,967 successfully using more ethical processes. 122 00:07:31,457 --> 00:07:39,937 The problem is with this is that their lawyers or their accountants or their 123 00:07:39,937 --> 00:07:44,317 counselors or their whatever, it's not their area of expertise. 124 00:07:44,317 --> 00:07:49,937 You go to a lawyer to do law, you go to an accountant to do accounting, you go to a 125 00:07:49,937 --> 00:07:54,257 counselor to do counseling, you use a builder to build a house, not to do your 126 00:07:54,257 --> 00:07:55,627 electricity, right? 127 00:07:55,627 --> 00:08:00,417 So they were the first clumsy attempts. 128 00:08:00,417 --> 00:08:03,337 around the debt negotiation industry. 129 00:08:03,337 --> 00:08:14,417 How the industry started, it started around 2 a 2001, in January, around 130 00:08:14,417 --> 00:08:21,957 January 15, 2001, about 2 a in its form that we see today. 131 00:08:22,157 --> 00:08:27,617 Now, I used to be a lifeline counselor and it was a midnight shift. 132 00:08:28,257 --> 00:08:28,801 No. 133 00:08:28,801 --> 00:08:32,741 It was 2 a and I pick up a phone call and it's a suicide. 134 00:08:33,001 --> 00:08:36,681 Now during the day, my job was to foreclose on properties. 135 00:08:36,681 --> 00:08:39,001 That was my job with the bank. 136 00:08:39,761 --> 00:08:44,981 And every fortnight I'd have a shift with Lifeline and I pick up this phone and it's 137 00:08:44,981 --> 00:08:47,321 a fairly young man, about your age. 138 00:08:47,321 --> 00:08:51,921 He had a couple of kids, lived in an apartment with his wife in Sydney and he 139 00:08:51,921 --> 00:08:54,041 received a foreclosure notice. 140 00:08:54,281 --> 00:08:57,537 And he was going to take his life by jumping off. 141 00:08:57,537 --> 00:09:00,617 the jumping off the balcony. 142 00:09:00,717 --> 00:09:06,397 Now that call, it ended up quite successful. 143 00:09:06,397 --> 00:09:12,277 So we resolved as best we could in that phone call and we intervened. 144 00:09:12,277 --> 00:09:18,307 But one of the things that I reflected on that call is what am I doing here? 145 00:09:18,307 --> 00:09:24,857 So on one side, I'm a decklater, on the other side, I'm moonlighting as a 146 00:09:24,857 --> 00:09:27,041 counselor dealing with 147 00:09:27,041 --> 00:09:29,801 the results of my actions as a debt collector. 148 00:09:29,801 --> 00:09:33,261 So there's got to be a way to bring the two together. 149 00:09:33,261 --> 00:09:36,341 And the debt negotiation industry was born. 150 00:09:36,501 --> 00:09:42,501 And how that was born was that we started a business, the business and the industry 151 00:09:42,501 --> 00:09:44,181 in its infancy. 152 00:09:44,181 --> 00:09:50,281 We started this business offering people who are experiencing financial hardship a 153 00:09:50,281 --> 00:09:52,081 way they can trade through. 154 00:09:52,081 --> 00:09:55,521 So a way they can deal with the mortgage and the mortgage arrears. 155 00:09:55,521 --> 00:09:58,621 way they can deal with the unsecured creditors, the credit cards, personal 156 00:09:58,621 --> 00:10:03,581 loans, and that sort of thing by negotiating and reducing the balances. 157 00:10:03,921 --> 00:10:06,137 And that's how it started. 158 00:10:07,734 --> 00:10:14,194 So I'm actually curious to understand a little bit more around what you do end up 159 00:10:14,194 --> 00:10:19,994 negotiating because I mentioned earlier that when my mom or this debt negotiation 160 00:10:19,994 --> 00:10:26,494 company negotiated the credit cards for my mom, that meant that that final payment 161 00:10:26,494 --> 00:10:29,054 was due within seven days. 162 00:10:29,054 --> 00:10:33,454 And fortunately, I had access to cash at the time because I had access to equity 163 00:10:33,454 --> 00:10:35,534 from a property that I owned. 164 00:10:35,534 --> 00:10:41,994 Well, for people out there that don't have access to capital, does that mean you then 165 00:10:41,994 --> 00:10:46,744 negotiate some type of payment plan, something that's more affordable for them? 166 00:10:46,744 --> 00:10:50,374 Do you go into their bank statements and understand what can they actually afford 167 00:10:50,374 --> 00:10:53,374 to pay based on their current circumstances? 168 00:10:54,209 --> 00:10:55,579 Right, interesting question. 169 00:10:55,579 --> 00:10:59,629 So the industry has evolved and it's become a lot more sophisticated. 170 00:11:00,369 --> 00:11:05,509 So these days, you can have an arrangement where you pay 20 cents in the dollar, one 171 00:11:05,509 --> 00:11:11,849 cent in the dollar, 60 cents in the dollar within seven days or 30 days or 60 days, 172 00:11:11,849 --> 00:11:13,129 depending on the scenario. 173 00:11:13,129 --> 00:11:15,629 So that's on the settlement option. 174 00:11:15,749 --> 00:11:19,309 But then you have an interest rate payment plan option. 175 00:11:20,289 --> 00:11:21,349 Excuse me. 176 00:11:21,349 --> 00:11:23,297 So... 177 00:11:23,297 --> 00:11:28,217 About seven, eight years ago, we observed an explosion of part nines. 178 00:11:28,217 --> 00:11:32,037 You mentioned part nine, that you're working in the part nine industry before. 179 00:11:32,037 --> 00:11:39,637 There's an explosion of these debt agreements, which is a great service if 180 00:11:39,637 --> 00:11:41,757 it's appropriate for the consumer. 181 00:11:42,197 --> 00:11:46,217 But one of the negative sides to the part nines is a bankruptcy listing on their 182 00:11:46,217 --> 00:11:49,057 credit report, which will sit there for five years. 183 00:11:49,877 --> 00:11:50,497 And... 184 00:11:50,497 --> 00:11:55,757 So that kind of leaves us sort of a sour taste in some consumers mouths because 185 00:11:55,757 --> 00:11:59,817 they want to move on with their, you know, with borrowing in the future. 186 00:11:59,817 --> 00:12:04,437 And so what we did is we created a new product and about eight years ago, it took 187 00:12:04,437 --> 00:12:06,877 about a year for us to convince the banks to do this. 188 00:12:06,877 --> 00:12:08,777 And that is interest rate payment plan. 189 00:12:08,777 --> 00:12:12,677 I'll call it a Clayton's part nine because it's part nine you're having when you're 190 00:12:12,677 --> 00:12:13,817 not having a part nine. 191 00:12:13,817 --> 00:12:17,137 And if you're over 50, you'll know what that means. 192 00:12:17,197 --> 00:12:19,553 So, so essentially. 193 00:12:19,553 --> 00:12:26,573 If you owe $100 ,000 on credit cards, your monthly repayments will be about $3 ,000 a 194 00:12:26,573 --> 00:12:28,733 month, approximately. 195 00:12:29,173 --> 00:12:35,653 And if, like most people, you're on that level with credit cards, it's no longer a 196 00:12:35,653 --> 00:12:39,813 credit card where you're paying down and paying out to zero every single month. 197 00:12:39,813 --> 00:12:42,813 Rather, it's been traded like a personal loan. 198 00:12:42,813 --> 00:12:44,897 You're just paying them in monthly due payments. 199 00:12:44,897 --> 00:12:48,997 So basically over the period of 20 years, you're gonna be paying back 200, $300 ,000 200 00:12:48,997 --> 00:12:50,677 in interest, right? 201 00:12:50,757 --> 00:12:57,077 So with the interest -free payment plan, what we do is we reduce the 100 ,000 down 202 00:12:57,077 --> 00:13:03,877 to about, say, $70 ,000, and you pay that off over, say, seven years, interest 203 00:13:03,877 --> 00:13:07,177 -free, at about $830 a month, all right? 204 00:13:07,257 --> 00:13:14,197 So what we do and what other negotiators have slowly been picking up and taking on 205 00:13:14,197 --> 00:13:15,009 as well, 206 00:13:15,009 --> 00:13:22,969 is you reduce the monthly payments by half to two -thirds. 207 00:13:22,969 --> 00:13:28,749 It's a permanent interest block and you're paying your debt off over seven years, not 208 00:13:28,749 --> 00:13:29,989 27 years. 209 00:13:29,989 --> 00:13:37,769 But the kicker is you don't have to pay all that future interest and that is a 210 00:13:37,769 --> 00:13:40,695 huge benefit for a family who's struggling. 211 00:13:41,486 --> 00:13:46,406 And would you say since we've had a lot of interest rate rises and inflation in the 212 00:13:46,406 --> 00:13:53,206 last couple of years, this has been an uptick in the customers and people that 213 00:13:53,206 --> 00:13:55,764 actually need this service right now? 214 00:13:56,641 --> 00:13:59,701 Yeah, most certainly, but it's not a sudden uptick. 215 00:13:59,701 --> 00:14:05,601 It's not a sudden uptick, Victor, because I mean, you know that you're running along 216 00:14:05,601 --> 00:14:13,201 fine and suddenly you're moving from a fixed to a variable rate, or if you're on 217 00:14:13,201 --> 00:14:19,541 a variable, it's bumped up by 0 .2 % and another 0 .25 % and so on. 218 00:14:19,541 --> 00:14:24,481 And you're the frog slowly, you know, in the pot slowly, but you're not quite 219 00:14:24,481 --> 00:14:25,641 aware. 220 00:14:26,689 --> 00:14:30,709 you know, that, you know, things are heating up. 221 00:14:30,709 --> 00:14:40,589 And so usually what we find in these kinds of environments, it's the after effect. 222 00:14:40,589 --> 00:14:45,849 At the time when you've had the increase of the interest rates, people don't 223 00:14:45,849 --> 00:14:50,249 necessarily seek assistance at that time, although they do, but we find it 224 00:14:50,249 --> 00:14:56,385 afterwards when they feel the pain and the consequences of the increase of the rates. 225 00:14:56,385 --> 00:15:04,185 So for example, if you move from a fixed to variable, you're paying like 7 % and 226 00:15:04,185 --> 00:15:09,005 your monthly payments are doubled or tripled, suddenly you're in a lot of pain 227 00:15:09,005 --> 00:15:13,525 and you try and so you get credit cards to pay the mortgage and you're getting mom 228 00:15:13,525 --> 00:15:15,705 and dad to help pay the mortgage. 229 00:15:15,705 --> 00:15:18,065 You rent a room out to a boarder. 230 00:15:18,065 --> 00:15:19,925 You're working a second job. 231 00:15:19,925 --> 00:15:24,865 And we find that a lot of people are doing that and not calling on professional 232 00:15:24,865 --> 00:15:25,889 assistance. 233 00:15:25,889 --> 00:15:30,909 until it gets to the point where I can't pay this month's mortgage and there's 30 234 00:15:30,909 --> 00:15:34,129 days in arrears and so they might seek assistance. 235 00:15:34,129 --> 00:15:36,099 We saw that especially with COVID. 236 00:15:36,099 --> 00:15:43,209 With COVID we anticipated a rush into our business but we saw actually a drop in 237 00:15:43,209 --> 00:15:44,469 business. 238 00:15:45,029 --> 00:15:48,569 And even the insolvency industry saw a drop in the business. 239 00:15:48,569 --> 00:15:54,269 Saw a drop in the business because consumers and families and companies were 240 00:15:54,269 --> 00:15:55,993 getting government assistance. 241 00:15:56,577 --> 00:16:01,277 and creating an artificial financial environment, propping them up. 242 00:16:01,277 --> 00:16:07,477 And then when that artificial assistance disappeared, suddenly a lot of people fell 243 00:16:07,477 --> 00:16:10,207 down and there's a spike in company insolvencies. 244 00:16:10,207 --> 00:16:15,557 There's a spike in arrears events, non -performing loans of the banks, which is 245 00:16:15,557 --> 00:16:16,517 doubling. 246 00:16:16,997 --> 00:16:21,987 And so when now that they're feeling the pain, i .e. 247 00:16:21,987 --> 00:16:25,601 arrears notices, foreclosure notices and so on, there's 248 00:16:25,601 --> 00:16:32,801 a rush to seek assistance from financial counsellors, debt negotiators, lawyers and 249 00:16:32,801 --> 00:16:35,341 so on and so forth who may be able to help them. 250 00:16:35,341 --> 00:16:38,430 So yes, to answer your question, he's getting busy. 251 00:16:38,430 --> 00:16:42,270 Yeah, and I guess what I want to understand and probably the listeners 252 00:16:42,270 --> 00:16:46,970 would like to know is that when is actually an appropriate time to contact 253 00:16:46,970 --> 00:16:53,010 your company, for example, because I just want to add on this in that people put 254 00:16:53,010 --> 00:16:54,690 their head in the sand, right? 255 00:16:54,690 --> 00:16:57,790 Or like you said, they cash advance on the credit card. 256 00:16:57,790 --> 00:17:02,670 I know some even go to like cash converters and pawn shops and hock their 257 00:17:02,670 --> 00:17:05,102 jewelry, you know, like people do. 258 00:17:05,102 --> 00:17:09,942 anything, whatever they can to kind of stay on top of their payments, especially 259 00:17:09,942 --> 00:17:10,982 the mortgage, right? 260 00:17:10,982 --> 00:17:13,562 Because this is a shelter, this is their home where they live. 261 00:17:13,562 --> 00:17:19,422 And also, I think that a lot of people have known that publicly, they were saying 262 00:17:19,422 --> 00:17:21,962 they predicted that property prices would drop through COVID. 263 00:17:21,962 --> 00:17:23,622 But instead, we had a boom. 264 00:17:23,622 --> 00:17:27,962 So now everyone's kind of thinking, wait, I don't want to sell because I want to 265 00:17:27,962 --> 00:17:29,358 pick up on the next boom. 266 00:17:29,358 --> 00:17:31,578 and I want to make money, I don't want to lose and sell. 267 00:17:31,578 --> 00:17:35,198 So they kind of hold on for dear life and do whatever they can. 268 00:17:35,198 --> 00:17:41,278 But that's at the cost of their, their basically their whole lifestyle and their 269 00:17:41,278 --> 00:17:45,018 safety and how they how they live and they're in a survival state. 270 00:17:45,138 --> 00:17:51,658 So how I guess the question again is like, when is an appropriate time to approach a 271 00:17:51,658 --> 00:17:52,378 debt negotiator? 272 00:17:52,378 --> 00:17:54,778 Do they need to be at collection stage? 273 00:17:54,778 --> 00:17:56,238 Do they need to be? 274 00:17:56,238 --> 00:17:59,258 at a point where they're having to cash advance on credit cards or borrow money 275 00:17:59,258 --> 00:17:59,938 from family? 276 00:17:59,938 --> 00:18:04,198 Or is it a point where they just realized that, wait a minute, I'm only living off 277 00:18:04,198 --> 00:18:08,478 of, you know, eating noodles every night or whatever it is, and I'm only living off 278 00:18:08,478 --> 00:18:13,217 say 20 % of my net income and the rest of us going to, to, to bills. 279 00:18:13,658 --> 00:18:15,096 you know, that's. 280 00:18:15,713 --> 00:18:19,013 Well, the quick answer to your question is yesterday. 281 00:18:19,013 --> 00:18:28,233 The long answer is, is contact a specialist to get advice because everyone 282 00:18:28,233 --> 00:18:33,323 you speak to has a financial interest in a relationship with you, right? 283 00:18:33,323 --> 00:18:38,113 Whether it's a mortgage broker or a debt collector or the bank or a debt 284 00:18:38,113 --> 00:18:44,533 negotiator, everyone has, except for your mum and dad, have a financial interest 285 00:18:44,533 --> 00:18:45,697 in... 286 00:18:45,697 --> 00:18:51,797 Dialoguing with you and if you find a good mortgage broker like yourself who sure You 287 00:18:51,797 --> 00:18:58,177 know, we've we make a buck in writing deals But that's our job, but you're my 288 00:18:58,177 --> 00:19:01,936 customer and I've got to look after you and so if you're lucky enough and blessed 289 00:19:01,936 --> 00:19:08,477 enough to Engage with someone who has a vested interest in doing their absolute 290 00:19:08,477 --> 00:19:12,597 best for you Then you hang on to it's like having a good mechanic and a good 291 00:19:12,597 --> 00:19:13,477 electrician or good. 292 00:19:13,477 --> 00:19:15,873 You've got them you hang on to them, right? 293 00:19:15,873 --> 00:19:21,463 So the first thing is you've got to deal with this as soon as possible. 294 00:19:21,463 --> 00:19:26,513 The second is you've got to critically assess the specialists that you're dealing 295 00:19:26,513 --> 00:19:29,613 with to ensure that you're dealing with the right person. 296 00:19:29,653 --> 00:19:36,973 Or are they going to give you a quick, easy, tasteless service like McDonald's? 297 00:19:36,973 --> 00:19:41,333 Are they going to give you a fast food response where it's just running it by 298 00:19:41,333 --> 00:19:42,373 numbers? 299 00:19:42,373 --> 00:19:45,345 So you've got to... 300 00:19:45,345 --> 00:19:47,925 You've got to assess that firstly. 301 00:19:49,304 --> 00:19:53,805 When you're eating noodles for dinner, that's when you know you've got a problem. 302 00:19:53,805 --> 00:19:58,945 So about 50 % of our clients, their credit reports look like Christmas trees. 303 00:19:58,945 --> 00:20:03,145 They've got arrears events all over their credit report defaults. 304 00:20:03,145 --> 00:20:05,635 The debt collection agencies are chasing them. 305 00:20:05,635 --> 00:20:10,385 And how we deal with a scenario like that will be different compared to how we'll 306 00:20:10,385 --> 00:20:15,169 deal with the other 50 % of our clients who are up to date, right? 307 00:20:15,169 --> 00:20:19,089 So, so many of our clients are paying their mortgage up to date. 308 00:20:19,089 --> 00:20:21,209 They're paying their credit cards up to date. 309 00:20:21,989 --> 00:20:26,529 clean as a whistle, but literally they're eating noodles for dinner. 310 00:20:26,529 --> 00:20:31,129 I remember I spoke, I was talking with a single mom, she had two kids. 311 00:20:31,449 --> 00:20:36,789 and she worked a full -time job and how you work a full -time job as a single mom 312 00:20:36,789 --> 00:20:38,469 with two kids. 313 00:20:38,469 --> 00:20:40,629 I don't know how you do that. 314 00:20:40,629 --> 00:20:42,881 Just on its own with. 315 00:20:42,881 --> 00:20:45,721 not to mention the added pressure of financial hardship. 316 00:20:45,721 --> 00:20:51,921 But I asked her, we went going through her budget and she was spending $60 a week on 317 00:20:51,921 --> 00:20:54,101 food between the three of them. 318 00:20:54,701 --> 00:20:56,381 How are you spending $60? 319 00:20:56,381 --> 00:20:57,301 How is that? 320 00:20:57,301 --> 00:20:58,141 How are you doing that? 321 00:20:58,141 --> 00:21:01,921 And she said, well, pasta and rice goes a long way. 322 00:21:02,481 --> 00:21:02,901 Right. 323 00:21:02,901 --> 00:21:06,081 And yet she was keeping her credit card payments up to date. 324 00:21:06,421 --> 00:21:07,841 No, no. 325 00:21:07,841 --> 00:21:12,961 So, so when you're feeling the pinch, that's the time. 326 00:21:12,961 --> 00:21:17,321 to contact a debt negotiator because one day one of your kids are going to need 327 00:21:17,321 --> 00:21:18,201 braces. 328 00:21:18,201 --> 00:21:21,641 One of your kids is going to spend overnight in hospital because they've 329 00:21:21,641 --> 00:21:25,760 broken their arm and a bill will come in and you can't pay it. 330 00:21:26,401 --> 00:21:28,541 So right now is the time. 331 00:21:28,542 --> 00:21:35,942 So another thing that just you reminded me of is, you know, when think circumstances 332 00:21:35,942 --> 00:21:38,002 can change, right? 333 00:21:38,402 --> 00:21:41,542 No one situation is the same forever. 334 00:21:41,542 --> 00:21:44,752 You know, income can go up and income can go down, right? 335 00:21:44,752 --> 00:21:46,522 Someone can be out of a job. 336 00:21:46,522 --> 00:21:49,222 You know, you have an unplanned kid. 337 00:21:49,262 --> 00:21:53,442 death in the family, so many different, you know, variables that can put you under 338 00:21:53,442 --> 00:21:53,762 pressure. 339 00:21:53,762 --> 00:21:56,242 And I think people remember the good times. 340 00:21:56,242 --> 00:22:00,122 And they want to and they feel that they want everything to be temporary. 341 00:22:00,122 --> 00:22:03,062 And then they want to protect their credit history. 342 00:22:03,062 --> 00:22:07,402 And I know that because I've been in that position where I wanted to protect my 343 00:22:07,402 --> 00:22:10,622 credit history, because I know that it's temporary, and then I'm going to get in a 344 00:22:10,622 --> 00:22:11,402 better position. 345 00:22:11,402 --> 00:22:16,562 And when I want to buy property, I'm in the best, I'm presenting the best possible 346 00:22:16,562 --> 00:22:18,390 light to the banks. 347 00:22:18,638 --> 00:22:23,758 So I guess the question I have, well, something I want to mention is that when 348 00:22:23,758 --> 00:22:28,518 you negotiate the debts, it's, it doesn't mean your credit file is impacted. 349 00:22:28,518 --> 00:22:29,878 It's actually the contrary. 350 00:22:29,878 --> 00:22:33,858 You actually get to protect your credit file and get your payments to an 351 00:22:33,858 --> 00:22:39,168 affordable level and basically reduce that debt and no longer pay interest on it. 352 00:22:39,168 --> 00:22:41,678 So it's, it's a actually win, win, win scenario. 353 00:22:41,678 --> 00:22:42,458 Right. 354 00:22:42,458 --> 00:22:45,677 So can you sort of elaborate on that a little bit? 355 00:22:45,677 --> 00:22:46,417 Yeah. 356 00:22:46,417 --> 00:22:51,237 And that's a really good point, Victor, that you bring up because like in 357 00:22:51,237 --> 00:22:56,267 different things for me, I often leave things to last minute, right? 358 00:22:56,267 --> 00:23:01,897 You know, when it comes to packing for a trip or something else, and then I'll make 359 00:23:01,897 --> 00:23:03,737 mistakes and I'll forget things. 360 00:23:03,737 --> 00:23:08,817 And when it comes to financial matters, a lot of people are like that too, where 361 00:23:08,817 --> 00:23:10,357 they just leave it to the last minute. 362 00:23:10,357 --> 00:23:11,937 And if you leave things to last minute, 363 00:23:11,937 --> 00:23:14,897 Then it could be troublesome for your credit report. 364 00:23:14,897 --> 00:23:22,777 Well, what caught a lot of people out from two three years ago with the CCR reporting 365 00:23:23,437 --> 00:23:30,237 Banks are required to list you as an arrears event if you're Two plus weeks in 366 00:23:30,237 --> 00:23:34,457 arrears so if you miss your mortgage payment because you forgot or you're 367 00:23:34,457 --> 00:23:38,817 traveling overseas and you're You know, you asked your brother to pay the mortgage 368 00:23:38,817 --> 00:23:41,921 payment for you and he forgets or whatever 369 00:23:41,921 --> 00:23:48,421 then that leaves a negative reporting mark on your credit report. 370 00:23:48,421 --> 00:23:53,921 And that can be extremely detrimental for you in securing a refinance at a later 371 00:23:53,921 --> 00:23:54,961 point. 372 00:23:55,581 --> 00:24:01,281 So it's critical to ensure that whatever decision you're going to make, if you're 373 00:24:01,281 --> 00:24:07,881 experiencing the sting of financial hardship, is to consider, if I take this 374 00:24:07,881 --> 00:24:11,137 next step, what's the impact on my credit report? 375 00:24:11,137 --> 00:24:13,197 It's a critical question. 376 00:24:13,517 --> 00:24:18,037 And whoever you speak to in whatever service they provide, it's a question that 377 00:24:18,037 --> 00:24:19,776 must be asked. 378 00:24:19,997 --> 00:24:24,437 OK, now, if they have a license, they ought to have a license if they're if 379 00:24:24,437 --> 00:24:30,117 they're playing in the finance sandbox, then they're obligated to disclose all 380 00:24:30,117 --> 00:24:33,537 that information to you, as you know, as you know, Victor. 381 00:24:34,457 --> 00:24:39,297 So so in terms of debt negotiations. 382 00:24:39,521 --> 00:24:44,101 there's no negative impact on the consumer's credit report. 383 00:24:47,641 --> 00:24:51,141 So there wouldn't be a default, there wouldn't be an arrears event. 384 00:24:51,141 --> 00:24:57,881 And sometimes what happens in negotiations, banks get a bit slack and 385 00:24:57,881 --> 00:25:04,821 they might list an arrears event because their software has done it. 386 00:25:04,821 --> 00:25:08,353 And because they're just on automatic pilot, as you know, with big banks. 387 00:25:08,353 --> 00:25:12,553 And so the negotiator ought to then go back and say, hey, you've listed an 388 00:25:12,553 --> 00:25:16,993 arrears event whilst we've had this client's file in hardship. 389 00:25:16,993 --> 00:25:18,153 Can you please remove it? 390 00:25:18,153 --> 00:25:21,253 In fact, that's just happened to us this week with Citibank. 391 00:25:21,253 --> 00:25:24,693 And we had an application for financial hardship. 392 00:25:24,693 --> 00:25:25,383 It was successful. 393 00:25:25,383 --> 00:25:28,273 We got most of the debt waived for the consumer. 394 00:25:28,273 --> 00:25:34,353 Yet Citibank listed the consumer mistakenly as an arrears event. 395 00:25:34,353 --> 00:25:36,553 And so that was taken care of. 396 00:25:38,305 --> 00:25:42,705 You want to avoid the arrears, if you fall behind with your repayments, you will be 397 00:25:42,705 --> 00:25:44,605 listed as an arrears event. 398 00:25:44,645 --> 00:25:45,025 Okay. 399 00:25:45,025 --> 00:25:49,065 Usually the banks will list around about three weeks in arrears. 400 00:25:49,065 --> 00:25:50,945 They tend not to do it about two weeks. 401 00:25:50,945 --> 00:25:56,645 They tend to do it about no, two and a half to three weeks from that period, 402 00:25:56,645 --> 00:25:58,135 particularly with West Back and St. 403 00:25:58,135 --> 00:25:59,025 George. 404 00:25:59,025 --> 00:26:05,713 So if you fall behind, that's what's going to happen and it cannot be removed at all. 405 00:26:05,793 --> 00:26:09,733 Unless there's an application for financial hardship and they did it by 406 00:26:09,733 --> 00:26:10,233 mistake. 407 00:26:10,233 --> 00:26:11,463 That's when it can be removed. 408 00:26:11,463 --> 00:26:13,853 If it's placed there by mistake. 409 00:26:13,993 --> 00:26:18,613 When you're using a negotiator, the only listing on your credit report is a 410 00:26:18,613 --> 00:26:19,533 hardship listing. 411 00:26:19,533 --> 00:26:24,213 And that has no detrimental effect on your credit score. 412 00:26:24,213 --> 00:26:25,703 Your credit score will not go down. 413 00:26:25,703 --> 00:26:30,813 It'll stay quite high despite the hardship listing. 414 00:26:30,813 --> 00:26:34,081 And that hardship listing will drop off after 12 months. 415 00:26:34,081 --> 00:26:40,261 Now, if a consumer is sensitive about that, we say, well, then don't negotiate. 416 00:26:40,261 --> 00:26:44,561 And it's very rare they'll say, no, we're not going to negotiate because, all right, 417 00:26:44,561 --> 00:26:48,081 so I'm going to reduce 100 ,000 down to 20 ,000. 418 00:26:48,361 --> 00:26:50,231 And that's great. 419 00:26:50,231 --> 00:26:53,361 And I'll have a hardship listing, which will drop off after 12 months, which is 420 00:26:53,361 --> 00:26:55,741 not detrimental to my credit score. 421 00:26:55,981 --> 00:27:01,101 Or I'll just pay off 100 ,000 and avoid that hardship listing. 422 00:27:01,101 --> 00:27:03,329 So the choice is obvious. 423 00:27:03,329 --> 00:27:09,049 You're going to want to save that $80 ,000 and who cares about a hardship listing on 424 00:27:09,049 --> 00:27:11,029 the credit report is going to drop off after 12 months. 425 00:27:11,029 --> 00:27:12,389 So it's all good. 426 00:27:12,389 --> 00:27:18,209 So to answer your question, using a negotiator, it has no detrimental effect 427 00:27:18,209 --> 00:27:22,169 on your credit report, but with caution. 428 00:27:22,169 --> 00:27:29,689 Keep an eye on your credit report and make sure you question the negotiator to ensure 429 00:27:29,689 --> 00:27:33,497 that that side has been taken care of and they're aware of it. 430 00:27:34,222 --> 00:27:36,742 Okay, yeah, you made some really good points there. 431 00:27:36,742 --> 00:27:39,202 And I want to add to that as well. 432 00:27:39,202 --> 00:27:48,142 Because when I set up my first company in 2016, I took out a startup business loan. 433 00:27:48,142 --> 00:27:50,622 And it was an overdraft with ANZ. 434 00:27:50,622 --> 00:27:53,382 And I also took out a business credit card. 435 00:27:53,382 --> 00:27:54,602 Not that I applied for it. 436 00:27:54,602 --> 00:27:57,662 But as you know, banks like to offer you more products. 437 00:27:57,662 --> 00:28:00,442 And I did max it out. 438 00:28:00,442 --> 00:28:02,682 I believe it was a $16 ,000 limit. 439 00:28:02,830 --> 00:28:04,660 And circumstances changed. 440 00:28:04,660 --> 00:28:07,710 I had to actually wind that company down. 441 00:28:07,710 --> 00:28:12,970 But the thing that I did was I communicated with ANZ before I got into a 442 00:28:12,970 --> 00:28:13,370 REIS. 443 00:28:13,370 --> 00:28:16,550 And that's, that's the thing I always tell clients, you know, they always ask, 444 00:28:16,550 --> 00:28:21,210 especially when they're buying commercial property, and, and they're worried that 445 00:28:21,210 --> 00:28:24,430 it's not going to have a lease or a tenant renewal. 446 00:28:24,430 --> 00:28:27,982 So I say it's all about communicating with the bank. 447 00:28:27,982 --> 00:28:30,682 All right, then they just got to tell them what's going on. 448 00:28:30,682 --> 00:28:33,532 And give them some they'll give you some breathing room, right? 449 00:28:33,532 --> 00:28:37,772 If it's temporary, like in my circumstance, I asked for, you know, 450 00:28:37,772 --> 00:28:42,182 reduced payments, right for I think it was three months. 451 00:28:42,182 --> 00:28:45,622 And I stuck to that I made those reduced payments. 452 00:28:45,622 --> 00:28:51,682 And then I ended up deciding to sell a property to clear this debt that I had. 453 00:28:51,682 --> 00:28:55,406 So therefore, I was in a position to negotiate that debt. 454 00:28:55,406 --> 00:28:58,466 Yes, I could have paid off the whole amount, but then that would have left me 455 00:28:58,466 --> 00:29:02,686 less money to pay towards capital gains tax and other expenses. 456 00:29:02,686 --> 00:29:07,326 But because I already started that communication, when I approached them and 457 00:29:07,326 --> 00:29:11,146 said, look, instead of paying you back to 16 grand, and just so you know, they froze 458 00:29:11,146 --> 00:29:17,466 the interest on it as well, when I was in that hardship period, I believe from 459 00:29:17,466 --> 00:29:19,866 memory, it was like eight grand, right? 460 00:29:19,866 --> 00:29:23,630 They halved the debt and I had to pay it off in five days. 461 00:29:23,630 --> 00:29:27,870 and I had the cash from the sale and I cleared it and there was no detrimental 462 00:29:27,870 --> 00:29:30,010 effect to my credit file. 463 00:29:30,570 --> 00:29:36,730 But in saying that, I've never applied for a loan with ANZ since. 464 00:29:36,730 --> 00:29:40,570 I don't know if they're going to bring that up from that long ago. 465 00:29:40,810 --> 00:29:44,250 And I got to ask you, I guess, Lawrence, you mentioned hardship will stay on the 466 00:29:44,250 --> 00:29:48,150 credit file for 12 months, but will that create a negative imprint with that bank 467 00:29:48,150 --> 00:29:52,130 for the foreseeable future if you've negotiated your debts or if you've gone 468 00:29:52,130 --> 00:29:53,574 into financial hardship? 469 00:29:54,049 --> 00:29:56,209 Yeah, that's a really, really good question. 470 00:29:56,209 --> 00:30:01,749 If there's any reason not to use a debt negotiator, that's the reason, right? 471 00:30:01,749 --> 00:30:03,809 If you're so inclined. 472 00:30:03,849 --> 00:30:11,129 So with when, let's say we negotiate with Westpac and we reduce 10 ,000 down to $2 473 00:30:11,129 --> 00:30:14,839 ,000, you pay your 2 ,000 and it's done, right? 474 00:30:14,839 --> 00:30:17,049 And they waive the $8 ,000. 475 00:30:17,049 --> 00:30:20,989 The very next day you go into a Westpac branch and say, I'd like to apply for a 476 00:30:20,989 --> 00:30:22,019 $10 ,000 credit card. 477 00:30:22,019 --> 00:30:22,549 Thank you. 478 00:30:22,549 --> 00:30:23,841 They're going to say, 479 00:30:23,841 --> 00:30:25,841 No, thank you. 480 00:30:25,841 --> 00:30:28,001 That's not how it works. 481 00:30:28,001 --> 00:30:31,601 And that's perfectly reasonable response. 482 00:30:31,601 --> 00:30:35,941 So the idea is that because the banks don't want you to take advantage of the 483 00:30:35,941 --> 00:30:40,421 situation, but they're reasonable people with the odd exception. 484 00:30:40,421 --> 00:30:42,281 And I'll get to that in a second. 485 00:30:42,681 --> 00:30:48,201 So if I negotiate with Westpac, reduce the payout figures and it's done, the dust 486 00:30:48,201 --> 00:30:49,171 settles on it. 487 00:30:49,171 --> 00:30:51,745 Six, 12, 24 months later. 488 00:30:51,745 --> 00:30:58,065 My financial position vastly improves and I put in an application for finance. 489 00:30:58,065 --> 00:31:02,085 They'll assess on the basis of that application. 490 00:31:02,085 --> 00:31:08,205 They will raise an eyebrow on the past hardship application, but generally it's a 491 00:31:08,205 --> 00:31:12,245 non -issue for most banks and financial institutions. 492 00:31:12,245 --> 00:31:17,345 They'll assess on the merits on the moment and your credit report and they'll make a 493 00:31:17,345 --> 00:31:17,985 decision. 494 00:31:17,985 --> 00:31:21,249 The one exception I will say is ANZ. 495 00:31:21,445 --> 00:31:24,855 And you can't, they have long memories. 496 00:31:24,855 --> 00:31:28,905 I was talking to a debt negotiator. 497 00:31:28,905 --> 00:31:34,525 I won't say who she is, but she's very, very experienced and she's very good. 498 00:31:34,525 --> 00:31:43,025 And she, when she was 22, she applied for financial hardship with ANZ Bank and got 499 00:31:43,025 --> 00:31:45,645 most of the debt waived and moved on with her life. 500 00:31:45,645 --> 00:31:47,845 She applied for a loan. 501 00:31:49,441 --> 00:31:53,141 about four years ago applied for a mortgage. 502 00:31:53,161 --> 00:31:54,421 you're frozen up there, Victor. 503 00:31:54,421 --> 00:31:55,737 Can you hear me all right? 504 00:31:59,393 --> 00:32:01,573 Victor, you still there, man? 505 00:32:01,943 --> 00:32:02,951 you're gone. 506 00:32:04,331 --> 00:32:06,009 I'm back. 507 00:32:06,009 --> 00:32:07,697 are, you've dropped out. 508 00:32:08,107 --> 00:32:08,967 Sorry about that. 509 00:32:08,967 --> 00:32:10,529 Don't worry, we'll fix it up later. 510 00:32:10,529 --> 00:32:12,229 with my bad stories. 511 00:32:13,949 --> 00:32:15,709 Where did we get up to? 512 00:32:16,549 --> 00:32:17,711 Where did we get up to? 513 00:32:17,711 --> 00:32:21,741 So you were just talking about the last story. 514 00:32:21,741 --> 00:32:23,011 It got a bit choppy there. 515 00:32:23,011 --> 00:32:25,737 But just, yeah, if you want to go back maybe a minute. 516 00:32:25,737 --> 00:32:26,437 Yeah. 517 00:32:26,437 --> 00:32:26,937 Yeah. 518 00:32:26,937 --> 00:32:32,536 So, so, so generally if you go back to the bank that you negotiate with, with an 519 00:32:32,536 --> 00:32:39,017 improved financial position, six, 12, 24 months later, it should be okay. 520 00:32:39,017 --> 00:32:41,937 The only exception is ANZ Bank. 521 00:32:42,097 --> 00:32:48,907 A colleague of mine, she had her debt waived when she was 22 with ANZ. 522 00:32:48,907 --> 00:32:50,457 It was a small credit card. 523 00:32:50,457 --> 00:32:53,037 She's a professional negotiator as well. 524 00:32:53,037 --> 00:32:53,633 And, 525 00:32:53,633 --> 00:32:58,623 She then applied for a mortgage, and that was 25 years ago. 526 00:32:58,623 --> 00:33:01,733 She applied for a mortgage about four years ago with ANZ. 527 00:33:01,733 --> 00:33:06,833 They knocked her back for that reason, even though she was in a very strong 528 00:33:06,833 --> 00:33:08,393 financial application. 529 00:33:08,393 --> 00:33:10,453 They knocked her back for that reason. 530 00:33:10,453 --> 00:33:13,593 That's very unusual in the banking community. 531 00:33:13,593 --> 00:33:18,333 So generally it's okay, but ANZ have long memories. 532 00:33:18,635 --> 00:33:19,415 Pretty strict. 533 00:33:19,415 --> 00:33:19,625 Yeah. 534 00:33:19,625 --> 00:33:25,495 Would you say that the same with, consumer and commercial? 535 00:33:25,575 --> 00:33:29,455 what I mean by that is, I had a mortgage broker who's been listening to my podcast 536 00:33:29,455 --> 00:33:32,135 and he asked me that ex that exact question. 537 00:33:32,135 --> 00:33:36,675 He said, client had a default previously with a insert. 538 00:33:36,935 --> 00:33:41,395 and it's dropped off his credit file is in a much better position, but now he wants 539 00:33:41,395 --> 00:33:43,435 to apply for a business loan. 540 00:33:43,531 --> 00:33:47,431 And with another part of the bank, because that default was on the consumer side. 541 00:33:47,431 --> 00:33:51,691 I'm curious if that also is going to flag or if it won't pick up at all. 542 00:33:51,691 --> 00:33:53,411 Do you know about that? 543 00:33:53,589 --> 00:34:00,389 no hard and fast rule around that because banks are highly siloed, right? 544 00:34:00,389 --> 00:34:06,489 And what the business side does compared to the consumer side, there might not be 545 00:34:06,489 --> 00:34:08,449 situation awareness. 546 00:34:08,489 --> 00:34:13,709 And with a lot of mergers with banks, they're still working off two different 547 00:34:13,709 --> 00:34:17,269 systems like NAB and Citibank, for example. 548 00:34:18,469 --> 00:34:20,801 Look, I mean, we had a... 549 00:34:20,801 --> 00:34:25,301 Consumer example is I don't client again the single mom. 550 00:34:25,301 --> 00:34:31,721 She had three kids and her her five -year -old was playing with matches and set the 551 00:34:31,721 --> 00:34:34,561 house on fire and the kitchen was completely burnt out. 552 00:34:34,561 --> 00:34:40,201 So and so she used her credit cards to have the kitchen rebuilt a year down the 553 00:34:40,201 --> 00:34:40,481 track. 554 00:34:40,481 --> 00:34:45,141 She was really struggling paying those credit cards and those credit cards were 555 00:34:45,141 --> 00:34:46,301 with a major bank. 556 00:34:46,301 --> 00:34:47,777 I won't say who it is. 557 00:34:47,777 --> 00:34:54,077 So we negotiated with those credit cards and we reduced the $38 ,000 down to about 558 00:34:54,077 --> 00:34:56,017 $6 ,000 or $7 ,000. 559 00:34:56,017 --> 00:34:58,037 But she had to raise $7 ,000. 560 00:34:58,037 --> 00:35:01,977 And you know where she got that $7 ,000 from? 561 00:35:01,977 --> 00:35:06,997 It was from the same bank we were negotiating with, but she got a personal 562 00:35:06,997 --> 00:35:08,497 loan with them. 563 00:35:08,677 --> 00:35:14,123 And that personal loan paid out that same bank, the settlement, because it's siloed. 564 00:35:14,123 --> 00:35:15,141 Interesting. 565 00:35:15,141 --> 00:35:17,561 didn't know what the other hand was doing. 566 00:35:17,561 --> 00:35:18,621 Now, is every bank like that? 567 00:35:18,621 --> 00:35:20,501 Every financial institution is like that? 568 00:35:20,501 --> 00:35:22,141 Probably not. 569 00:35:22,141 --> 00:35:24,881 So it's hit and miss. 570 00:35:25,341 --> 00:35:32,621 So the rule of thumb is, is that if you've had a hardship or a negotiated outcome 571 00:35:32,621 --> 00:35:40,021 with a bank today, leave them alone for six to 12 months and build your financial 572 00:35:40,021 --> 00:35:41,421 position on. 573 00:35:42,161 --> 00:35:44,185 Otherwise, if you... 574 00:35:44,225 --> 00:35:45,985 The alternative is just go to another bank. 575 00:35:45,985 --> 00:35:48,545 There's 40 or 50 banks out there. 576 00:35:48,545 --> 00:35:50,267 Just simply go to another bank. 577 00:35:50,267 --> 00:35:52,207 Well, that's why I didn't go back to ANZ. 578 00:35:52,207 --> 00:35:55,227 But to be honest with you, it's not like I needed them. 579 00:35:55,227 --> 00:36:01,207 Anyway, I've been to Macquarie, I've been to CBA, but it's always good to know this 580 00:36:01,207 --> 00:36:06,647 for people out there that are worried that they're going to shoot themselves in the 581 00:36:06,647 --> 00:36:12,507 foot for future borrowing, especially if they know that the situation they're in is 582 00:36:12,507 --> 00:36:13,355 temporary. 583 00:36:13,355 --> 00:36:17,815 want to say temporary, like they don't see the change coming, but they know that they 584 00:36:17,815 --> 00:36:20,335 will get in a better position at some point, right? 585 00:36:20,335 --> 00:36:25,315 Whether the partner is, is going to get a job again, or, you know, they're signing 586 00:36:25,315 --> 00:36:28,275 up a business will take time to get clients, etc. 587 00:36:28,275 --> 00:36:32,771 So the other question I have, and I'm sure the listeners, sorry, go on. 588 00:36:32,961 --> 00:36:34,441 Yeah, it's a good point, Victor. 589 00:36:34,441 --> 00:36:41,301 And I guess I want to add is that for most consumers, it's a non -factor because I 590 00:36:41,301 --> 00:36:43,241 owe a hundred grand and it's going to sink me. 591 00:36:43,241 --> 00:36:45,441 I'm going to lose my house. 592 00:36:45,561 --> 00:36:50,521 And if I never have to deal with ANZ again, I don't care. 593 00:36:50,521 --> 00:36:52,481 I'll just go to Westpac. 594 00:36:52,521 --> 00:36:54,801 It's a non -issue. 595 00:36:54,801 --> 00:36:59,261 So the bigger issue is dealing with the immediate crisis. 596 00:36:59,301 --> 00:36:59,941 Yeah. 597 00:36:59,941 --> 00:37:01,691 It's a great question. 598 00:37:02,123 --> 00:37:05,333 you mentioned about losing my house. 599 00:37:05,333 --> 00:37:09,643 So I'm sure some of the listeners will be thinking, I've got a mortgage, and I've 600 00:37:09,643 --> 00:37:10,823 got equity. 601 00:37:10,883 --> 00:37:11,303 Right. 602 00:37:11,303 --> 00:37:13,483 And I've also got all these other debts. 603 00:37:13,483 --> 00:37:17,873 But I can't get a loan right now because you know, interest rates are so high, 604 00:37:17,873 --> 00:37:20,223 borrowing capacity has been reduced. 605 00:37:20,939 --> 00:37:24,899 So I can't even consolidate my debts, even if I want to, or maybe a mortgage broker 606 00:37:24,899 --> 00:37:29,058 has told me in order for me to get a loan to consolidate my personal loans and 607 00:37:29,058 --> 00:37:33,919 credit cards, it's going to be, you know, two, two, 3 % higher interest rate than 608 00:37:33,919 --> 00:37:35,999 I'm currently on, on the home loan. 609 00:37:35,999 --> 00:37:40,319 So it's going to increase all of my loan, not just let me keep a lower rate on the 610 00:37:40,319 --> 00:37:42,779 majority of the home loan and a high rate on the other debt. 611 00:37:42,779 --> 00:37:47,619 So if they then negotiate on their unsecured stuff, credit cards, personal 612 00:37:47,619 --> 00:37:48,911 loans, et cetera. 613 00:37:49,132 --> 00:37:54,592 Does that mean their home is protected and they don't have to sell it and they don't 614 00:37:54,592 --> 00:37:57,572 have to take out a second mortgage or anything like that where they're putting 615 00:37:57,572 --> 00:37:59,912 themselves at risk of losing the home? 616 00:38:01,185 --> 00:38:06,025 But there's so many different directions you can go with that question. 617 00:38:06,245 --> 00:38:07,515 Gosh, that's a really good question. 618 00:38:07,515 --> 00:38:14,303 I think firstly, when you have debt, your assets are exposed. 619 00:38:15,937 --> 00:38:21,877 Right, so unless there's zero equity, your property is exposed. 620 00:38:22,217 --> 00:38:26,047 It's particularly exposed if you cannot afford to pay those debts. 621 00:38:26,047 --> 00:38:30,797 Now, generally the banks, the Westpac's ANZ, Commonwealth Banks collection 622 00:38:30,797 --> 00:38:35,317 departments generally don't litigate. 623 00:38:36,597 --> 00:38:39,497 I'm talking about credit cards, personal loans, unsecured debt. 624 00:38:39,497 --> 00:38:41,707 They generally won't litigate to take property. 625 00:38:41,707 --> 00:38:44,321 They won't do that, generally, right? 626 00:38:44,321 --> 00:38:48,801 They, the, the, the debt goes through a collection process until it's about six to 627 00:38:48,801 --> 00:38:50,101 eight months in arrears. 628 00:38:50,101 --> 00:38:53,681 Then they outsource it to a debt collection agency and the debt collection 629 00:38:53,681 --> 00:38:55,721 agency, that's their job. 630 00:38:55,721 --> 00:39:00,921 So, so if I've got a credit card, that's 30 days in arrears today and I stopped 631 00:39:00,921 --> 00:39:09,441 paying indefinitely, it's not going to impact my, my property until a year or two 632 00:39:09,441 --> 00:39:10,721 years down the track. 633 00:39:11,161 --> 00:39:11,681 Right. 634 00:39:11,681 --> 00:39:14,113 My credit report will look like a Christmas tree. 635 00:39:14,113 --> 00:39:17,313 and I'll get letters and text messages and phone calls. 636 00:39:17,993 --> 00:39:23,373 But a detrimental effect on my property is not going to happen for some time yet down 637 00:39:23,373 --> 00:39:25,093 the track. 638 00:39:26,313 --> 00:39:35,473 Coming back to, but it's important to note that you don't want to test that because 639 00:39:35,473 --> 00:39:37,973 it could happen sooner as well. 640 00:39:37,973 --> 00:39:38,593 So. 641 00:39:38,593 --> 00:39:42,973 So it's very important to pay your debts and keep them up to date as best you can 642 00:39:42,973 --> 00:39:44,913 or talk to a specialist. 643 00:39:45,573 --> 00:39:52,333 Coming back to the other part of your question with refinancing. 644 00:39:52,493 --> 00:39:58,433 So the question I would have to ask, I've got a hundred grand in credit cards, I've 645 00:39:58,433 --> 00:40:00,293 got equity in my property. 646 00:40:00,793 --> 00:40:07,329 What I need to figure out is what's the best financial outcome for me on balance. 647 00:40:07,329 --> 00:40:11,069 So there's going to be pros and cons on every single direction I go in. 648 00:40:11,069 --> 00:40:15,089 There's going to be a cost that I have to pay, but there's going to be a benefit. 649 00:40:15,089 --> 00:40:22,009 So which decision do I take that's going to maximize my benefit and minimize my 650 00:40:22,009 --> 00:40:23,049 costs? 651 00:40:23,169 --> 00:40:27,669 And invariably, but not always, invariably it's refinancing. 652 00:40:28,129 --> 00:40:34,177 So if I've got a fair amount of equity in my property, I'm paying what, 20 %? 653 00:40:34,177 --> 00:40:39,617 interest on my credit card at a hundred thousand dollars and Where the property 654 00:40:39,617 --> 00:40:41,877 rate is what six percent seven percent? 655 00:40:41,877 --> 00:40:46,617 Whatever the figure is and that hundred thousand is going to reduce down to Let's 656 00:40:46,617 --> 00:40:49,717 call it twenty thousand because we keep using that example. 657 00:40:49,717 --> 00:40:53,317 I'm gonna save myself eighty thousand dollars within a few weeks of negotiations 658 00:40:53,317 --> 00:40:55,697 That's pretty good. 659 00:40:55,697 --> 00:41:00,157 And then that twenty thousand that I pay Won't be on twenty percent. 660 00:41:00,157 --> 00:41:03,353 They'll be on seven percent on my mortgage rate 661 00:41:03,425 --> 00:41:04,985 Let's refi this sucker. 662 00:41:04,985 --> 00:41:11,365 Let's refinance it because I am going to make an absolute mozza by doing that even 663 00:41:11,365 --> 00:41:14,645 if I go to a second tier lender temporarily. 664 00:41:14,925 --> 00:41:18,905 But that's more of a broker question than a negotiator question. 665 00:41:19,345 --> 00:41:24,465 So if I pay even like a slightly higher rate going to a second tier lender, then 666 00:41:24,465 --> 00:41:29,405 that still might be worth it for me if there's a strategy in place for work with 667 00:41:29,405 --> 00:41:31,285 a broker like yourself. 668 00:41:31,285 --> 00:41:32,033 So. 669 00:41:32,033 --> 00:41:36,413 So by dealing with those debts, it's a good thing. 670 00:41:36,473 --> 00:41:40,747 And got to ask the right questions to minimize the risk. 671 00:41:41,099 --> 00:41:46,619 The scenario you just gave, the 100 ,000 down to 20 and refinancing. 672 00:41:47,083 --> 00:41:52,003 Are you saying that we can do the two strategies at the same time? 673 00:41:52,003 --> 00:41:58,203 So so essentially, yeah, negotiate on the unsecured and apply for a refinance and 674 00:41:58,203 --> 00:41:59,083 debt consolidation. 675 00:41:59,083 --> 00:42:03,383 But instead of consolidating the full 100, you only consolidate the 20 because you're 676 00:42:03,383 --> 00:42:08,743 negotiating and saying I will pay out that 80 that 100 and I will negotiate to 20 but 677 00:42:08,743 --> 00:42:12,983 I'll pay it out in the next, you know, 60 days because I'm applying for a loan to do 678 00:42:12,983 --> 00:42:13,723 that. 679 00:42:13,723 --> 00:42:14,643 So is that? 680 00:42:15,683 --> 00:42:16,643 Wow. 681 00:42:17,337 --> 00:42:22,717 rely on the negotiator to access a mortgage product for you. 682 00:42:22,717 --> 00:42:30,577 The reason being is negotiator will know about mortgages, but again, you're asking 683 00:42:30,577 --> 00:42:32,887 the builder to do the electricity and so on. 684 00:42:32,887 --> 00:42:37,957 You want a professional mortgage broker like yourself, been in the industry a long 685 00:42:37,957 --> 00:42:43,425 time, you're ethical, and you've got the contacts and you've got the panel. 686 00:42:43,425 --> 00:42:49,705 of lenders which offer all the variables, all the different products to cater for 687 00:42:49,705 --> 00:42:55,465 whatever variables that your client is experiencing to pick just the right lender 688 00:42:55,465 --> 00:42:58,745 and then just the right product under that lender. 689 00:42:58,745 --> 00:43:00,015 And so you speak to the broker. 690 00:43:00,015 --> 00:43:03,605 So you work with the broker hand in hand with the negotiator. 691 00:43:03,605 --> 00:43:07,045 And there might be another specialist might come in like a credit repair 692 00:43:07,045 --> 00:43:09,415 specialist who will remove the default. 693 00:43:09,415 --> 00:43:13,345 So this strategy, so you might have two or three specialists walk. 694 00:43:13,345 --> 00:43:19,905 walking together and pacing their work in accordance with each other to get to the 695 00:43:19,905 --> 00:43:22,045 end point together of the refinance. 696 00:43:22,045 --> 00:43:28,285 And the end point is most of that debt's waived and you've got a killer mortgage 697 00:43:28,285 --> 00:43:33,445 product that's going to save you an absolute fortune and you're in a much 698 00:43:33,445 --> 00:43:37,199 better financial position if you use these specialists. 699 00:43:37,419 --> 00:43:40,379 Yeah, no, really, I love that, that approach, actually. 700 00:43:40,379 --> 00:43:46,099 And you're making my my mind think because I everything I do for clients is 701 00:43:46,099 --> 00:43:47,219 strategic. 702 00:43:47,219 --> 00:43:52,819 And, and I'm thinking about how that could be positioned to a bank. 703 00:43:52,819 --> 00:43:58,319 And I do believe that this could actually work well, not necessarily go to a second 704 00:43:58,319 --> 00:44:00,811 tier, can actually go to a bank. 705 00:44:00,811 --> 00:44:03,931 and apply for a loan, that's enough. 706 00:44:03,931 --> 00:44:06,531 That's assuming the negotiation is accepted. 707 00:44:06,531 --> 00:44:10,431 Of course, you'd have to actually, you know, time it well, like you said, you're 708 00:44:10,431 --> 00:44:14,661 sort of working in unison to an extent and communicating. 709 00:44:14,661 --> 00:44:18,151 And that's, that's what it's all about is just everyone being on the same page, 710 00:44:18,151 --> 00:44:19,671 working towards the same objective. 711 00:44:19,671 --> 00:44:25,227 And at the end of the day, the client is the one that's benefiting the most. 712 00:44:25,227 --> 00:44:28,767 But like anything, everyone has a profession. 713 00:44:28,767 --> 00:44:30,897 Everyone's got to make a living for what they do. 714 00:44:30,897 --> 00:44:34,647 It's just about charging fairly for the time and expertise for what you do. 715 00:44:34,647 --> 00:44:39,167 You know, as a broker, you know, I'm in a unique position because my company gets 716 00:44:39,167 --> 00:44:45,887 paid from the banks commission and also a trading commission for residential 717 00:44:45,887 --> 00:44:46,731 lending. 718 00:44:46,731 --> 00:44:50,611 it doesn't affect the interest rate because it was called best interest duty. 719 00:44:50,611 --> 00:44:56,111 So I don't have the ability to request the commission to be dialed down in order to 720 00:44:56,111 --> 00:44:58,331 give the client a better interest rate. 721 00:44:58,331 --> 00:45:04,331 Commercial you can and that the fees are different the way I'm remunerated for 722 00:45:04,331 --> 00:45:09,011 commercial but under on the consumer credit NCCP National Consumer Credit 723 00:45:09,011 --> 00:45:12,811 Protection Act and best interest duty it means that 724 00:45:12,811 --> 00:45:18,311 clients can actually get the best product rates and fees while my company still gets 725 00:45:18,311 --> 00:45:19,071 paid. 726 00:45:19,071 --> 00:45:22,671 And it's not out of their pocket that's covering it or a direct correlation with 727 00:45:22,671 --> 00:45:23,931 the interest that they're paying. 728 00:45:23,931 --> 00:45:29,030 But in terms of debt negotiation, you're talking to people that obviously have got 729 00:45:29,030 --> 00:45:33,971 limited access to capital and affordability. 730 00:45:33,971 --> 00:45:36,671 So how do you guys actually get paid? 731 00:45:36,671 --> 00:45:39,671 Or is this the same for all debt negotiators? 732 00:45:39,969 --> 00:45:42,389 Well, sometimes we don't. 733 00:45:43,329 --> 00:45:45,509 It's an interesting question. 734 00:45:45,889 --> 00:45:49,289 OK, 30 % of our business is pro -vino. 735 00:45:49,289 --> 00:45:52,869 So we deal a lot with the terminally ill. 736 00:45:52,869 --> 00:45:56,069 And I'll get the full force of our service, not a watered down version, but 737 00:45:56,069 --> 00:45:58,289 the full force of our service. 738 00:45:58,289 --> 00:46:00,929 And invariably, we'll get all their debts waived. 739 00:46:00,929 --> 00:46:04,649 No problems because of the medical condition. 740 00:46:04,649 --> 00:46:09,089 That aside, we charge a fee only on success. 741 00:46:09,089 --> 00:46:13,969 is one of the questions, as I mentioned before, you're asking questions of the 742 00:46:13,969 --> 00:46:14,709 financial specialist. 743 00:46:14,709 --> 00:46:17,629 And one of the questions is, what's your fee? 744 00:46:17,629 --> 00:46:25,209 And if the negotiator is going to charge upfront, that doesn't mean that they're 745 00:46:25,209 --> 00:46:31,249 not going to deliver a good outcome for you, but it potentially is a warning bell 746 00:46:31,249 --> 00:46:35,769 because if you're getting paid upfront, you're not going to put in the best 747 00:46:35,769 --> 00:46:38,677 service potentially. 748 00:46:39,425 --> 00:46:45,165 Some negotiators will charge on the back end only on success. 749 00:46:45,165 --> 00:46:51,665 Okay, so they have a financial interest in completing the job and to the satisfaction 750 00:46:51,665 --> 00:46:53,045 of the consumer. 751 00:46:53,045 --> 00:46:56,265 So we charge 22 % of what we save, right? 752 00:46:56,265 --> 00:47:03,685 And so the more we save, the more money we make and the more money the customer 753 00:47:03,685 --> 00:47:03,985 makes. 754 00:47:03,985 --> 00:47:05,255 So that works well. 755 00:47:05,255 --> 00:47:07,405 We put our money where our mouth is. 756 00:47:07,905 --> 00:47:11,905 Additionally, if the customer is not happy with the outcome, then they have a right 757 00:47:11,905 --> 00:47:15,545 to not go ahead with the settlement. 758 00:47:15,545 --> 00:47:17,295 And we forfeit our fee. 759 00:47:17,295 --> 00:47:23,845 And that's really important because as a broker, it's the 11th hour before 760 00:47:23,845 --> 00:47:28,045 settlement and the customer says, I don't want to go ahead with this because of X 761 00:47:28,045 --> 00:47:29,125 reason. 762 00:47:29,265 --> 00:47:31,425 No, my plans have changed. 763 00:47:31,425 --> 00:47:33,525 I've had a death in the family. 764 00:47:33,965 --> 00:47:36,289 I found another deal, whatever. 765 00:47:36,289 --> 00:47:39,309 but they have a right to pull back and they certainly have a right with us. 766 00:47:39,309 --> 00:47:45,509 So what if we reduce a hundred thousand down to $90 ,000 and the customer can't 767 00:47:45,509 --> 00:47:46,519 pay $90 ,000. 768 00:47:46,519 --> 00:47:47,789 They weren't expecting that. 769 00:47:47,789 --> 00:47:54,839 They shouldn't be expected to pay our fee of $2 ,200, 22 % of $10 ,000 saving. 770 00:47:54,839 --> 00:47:56,989 They shouldn't be expected to pay that. 771 00:47:57,829 --> 00:48:01,149 So the deal is we deliver. 772 00:48:01,329 --> 00:48:02,489 Are you happy? 773 00:48:02,489 --> 00:48:02,929 Great. 774 00:48:02,929 --> 00:48:03,969 Here's our invoice. 775 00:48:03,969 --> 00:48:04,849 Not happy? 776 00:48:04,849 --> 00:48:06,145 Okay, that's fine. 777 00:48:06,145 --> 00:48:11,305 We forfeit our fee and you forfeit the savings of fruit of the labor and everyone 778 00:48:11,305 --> 00:48:13,545 goes home and that's perfectly fine. 779 00:48:13,665 --> 00:48:18,205 It rarely happens, but sometimes, you know, circumstances change. 780 00:48:18,705 --> 00:48:24,985 So the fee for us, 22 % of what we saved, sometimes we reduce it to 10 or five or 1 781 00:48:24,985 --> 00:48:31,725 % because what if we're like, we saved the client a few months ago, $6 million in 782 00:48:31,725 --> 00:48:32,305 business debt. 783 00:48:32,305 --> 00:48:34,085 So we had all that money waived. 784 00:48:34,085 --> 00:48:35,841 And so our fee wouldn't be 785 00:48:35,841 --> 00:48:39,571 22 % of 6 million, otherwise I wouldn't be here. 786 00:48:39,571 --> 00:48:42,801 I'll be on some island somewhere taking a long holiday. 787 00:48:43,661 --> 00:48:49,281 So it's obviously the fee would reflect the amount of work and the savings that's 788 00:48:49,281 --> 00:48:50,067 involved. 789 00:48:50,347 --> 00:48:54,187 Yeah, like I said earlier, it's about the, you know, getting paid fairly for the time 790 00:48:54,187 --> 00:48:59,307 and expertise that you bring, you know, so the commission part is always a challenge, 791 00:48:59,307 --> 00:48:59,687 right? 792 00:48:59,687 --> 00:49:04,087 You know, there's been a bit of spotlights on mortgage brokers recently saying that 793 00:49:04,087 --> 00:49:09,027 they earn a certain amount and, you know, I don't think that the system is perfect 794 00:49:09,027 --> 00:49:10,327 personally. 795 00:49:10,807 --> 00:49:15,107 The way I get around that for myself is that I make sure I always add value for my 796 00:49:15,107 --> 00:49:18,763 clients and try to put them in a better financial position because... 797 00:49:18,763 --> 00:49:24,303 Then at the day, the structure is set up where brokers can be incentivized for 798 00:49:24,303 --> 00:49:27,483 people to take on more and more debt and get paid more. 799 00:49:27,483 --> 00:49:29,583 But that to me, that's that's counterintuitive. 800 00:49:29,583 --> 00:49:33,363 If you're if you're if you're so if you're offering a service and your service base 801 00:49:33,363 --> 00:49:36,983 and you're wanting to do the right thing by your clients, then you want them to get 802 00:49:36,983 --> 00:49:37,883 out of debt. 803 00:49:37,883 --> 00:49:40,463 Doesn't matter if it affects your back pocket, right? 804 00:49:40,463 --> 00:49:43,303 Get them out of debt because they'll stick with you and then they'll refer their 805 00:49:43,303 --> 00:49:44,503 friends and their family. 806 00:49:44,503 --> 00:49:46,565 So you become the trusted advisor. 807 00:49:48,081 --> 00:49:50,261 is a critical point you bring up there, Victor. 808 00:49:50,261 --> 00:49:57,361 Last week I was talking to an older gentleman, he was in his late 60s. 809 00:49:57,541 --> 00:50:01,301 And I said to him, look, we can save X amount for you, no problems. 810 00:50:01,301 --> 00:50:03,141 He said, well, do you think you can save more? 811 00:50:03,141 --> 00:50:07,341 Because I've been with that bank since I was 12 years old. 812 00:50:08,541 --> 00:50:12,261 And surely that loyalty will mean something. 813 00:50:12,261 --> 00:50:15,101 And I said, no, not anymore. 814 00:50:15,105 --> 00:50:19,985 And this is the critical point that you're making, is that when you're dealing with a 815 00:50:19,985 --> 00:50:22,985 broker, you're getting a personalized service. 816 00:50:23,165 --> 00:50:28,565 When you're dealing, if you go into the branch, you might get the same rate, but 817 00:50:28,565 --> 00:50:31,345 you will not get the personalized service. 818 00:50:31,345 --> 00:50:37,925 You walk into, and this is not anything against Westpac, for example, but you walk 819 00:50:37,925 --> 00:50:42,265 into a Westpac, and I bank with Westpac, and I think they're a great bank for many 820 00:50:42,265 --> 00:50:43,009 reasons. 821 00:50:43,009 --> 00:50:46,289 But if I go into a Westpac branch, I wouldn't buy a mortgage off them. 822 00:50:46,289 --> 00:50:48,369 I wouldn't get a mortgage off them directly with the branch. 823 00:50:48,369 --> 00:50:52,909 I'd go to a mortgage broker and I have a mortgage broker to do my mortgages for me. 824 00:50:52,909 --> 00:50:53,729 Why? 825 00:50:53,729 --> 00:50:58,529 Because the mortgage broker is the aggregate, is the central piece who's got 826 00:50:58,529 --> 00:51:03,729 access to all these amazing products, not just with Westpac, but with Commaul Bank 827 00:51:03,729 --> 00:51:10,129 and with Judo Bank and with lenders, especially like Macquarie Leasing. 828 00:51:10,129 --> 00:51:12,309 Everything you need for vehicles, 829 00:51:12,897 --> 00:51:17,297 equipment, business lending, consumer lending. 830 00:51:17,717 --> 00:51:20,397 This broker is an aggregate. 831 00:51:20,397 --> 00:51:25,437 You, Victor, you're an aggregate for all these amazing lending, but I'll only get a 832 00:51:25,437 --> 00:51:26,497 snapshot of that. 833 00:51:26,497 --> 00:51:29,387 If you can picture a pie chart, a snapshot of that. 834 00:51:29,387 --> 00:51:32,937 If I walk into a Comma Bank branch or an ANZ branch, only a snapshot. 835 00:51:32,937 --> 00:51:42,925 So you're not going to get the best, the best, 836 00:51:42,925 --> 00:51:51,045 level of access to all these different products and you're not going to get a 837 00:51:51,045 --> 00:51:52,545 personalized service. 838 00:51:52,545 --> 00:51:56,105 And it's the same with everything in financial services. 839 00:51:56,105 --> 00:52:01,085 You want someone who has a financial interest in delivering the best possible 840 00:52:01,085 --> 00:52:02,325 deal for you. 841 00:52:02,325 --> 00:52:04,793 And generally banks don't. 842 00:52:05,835 --> 00:52:06,515 It's true. 843 00:52:06,515 --> 00:52:06,835 Yeah. 844 00:52:06,835 --> 00:52:07,185 Yeah. 845 00:52:07,185 --> 00:52:11,215 And the other thing is, you know, bankers, a lot of bankers are actually becoming 846 00:52:11,215 --> 00:52:12,585 brokers, right? 847 00:52:12,585 --> 00:52:16,815 I can't, you know, Commonwealth Bank has actually increased their bonus structure 848 00:52:16,815 --> 00:52:20,975 to try to retain their best bankers because they're all going out there 849 00:52:20,975 --> 00:52:22,095 becoming mortgage brokers. 850 00:52:22,095 --> 00:52:28,395 And, and it's because what happens is you build a relationship with someone at the 851 00:52:28,395 --> 00:52:33,963 branch and they your go to maybe from time to time you contact them. 852 00:52:33,963 --> 00:52:38,163 But then they get promoted, or they get another job, and they switch banks, and 853 00:52:38,163 --> 00:52:41,583 now you get someone new, and that's no longer the same person, and they're new to 854 00:52:41,583 --> 00:52:45,183 the industry, they don't understand your situation, you have to explain things all 855 00:52:45,183 --> 00:52:46,283 over again. 856 00:52:46,283 --> 00:52:51,023 Whereas as a broker, especially a broker like myself, that's been in the industry 857 00:52:51,023 --> 00:52:54,183 for 18 years, I'm not going anywhere. 858 00:52:54,251 --> 00:52:57,751 So I'll always be around in this industry. 859 00:52:57,751 --> 00:52:59,311 So and I'm upskilling. 860 00:52:59,311 --> 00:53:03,031 So then I'll be able to then provide other options like I am at the moment with 861 00:53:03,031 --> 00:53:07,271 commercial property and other investment strategies. 862 00:53:07,411 --> 00:53:13,031 You know, so it's like, that's always, you know, adding to my artillery of services 863 00:53:13,031 --> 00:53:16,641 that I that I can help my clients with because, you know, 864 00:53:16,641 --> 00:53:18,371 and it's a really good point you make. 865 00:53:18,371 --> 00:53:23,461 You walk into that branch and you'll talk to Frank Lunchbox, who's the head of 866 00:53:23,461 --> 00:53:30,981 lending and Frank Lunchbox, he has his own KPIs and he has his own, all right, well, 867 00:53:30,981 --> 00:53:34,361 I've got to be pushing this product as opposed to that product. 868 00:53:34,601 --> 00:53:41,341 There are triggers and blocks and all kinds of things that's going on internally 869 00:53:41,341 --> 00:53:43,561 with that bank. 870 00:53:44,161 --> 00:53:55,241 that will motivate Frank Lunchbox to offer this product to a consumer who is unaware 871 00:53:55,241 --> 00:54:00,441 and most consumers are unaware about what type of product is best for them and what 872 00:54:00,441 --> 00:54:02,801 are the features of that product. 873 00:54:03,201 --> 00:54:05,541 And whereas the mortgage broker or the... 874 00:54:05,541 --> 00:54:09,481 And there's a reason why banks aren't doing financial planning anymore and 875 00:54:09,481 --> 00:54:11,641 that's well advertised. 876 00:54:11,968 --> 00:54:17,548 on why they're not is because, you know, cause of this sort of thing, favoring this 877 00:54:17,548 --> 00:54:22,808 investment and corralling consumers into that direction as opposed to maybe they 878 00:54:22,808 --> 00:54:24,248 should be going in that direction. 879 00:54:24,248 --> 00:54:31,948 Because I know if I give the bad advice as a branch manager, I'm protected under the 880 00:54:31,948 --> 00:54:34,308 legal umbrella of the bank. 881 00:54:35,008 --> 00:54:35,228 Right. 882 00:54:35,228 --> 00:54:41,825 And so, and so, you know, whereas if I'm a mortgage broker, 883 00:54:41,825 --> 00:54:43,565 It's just me. 884 00:54:43,565 --> 00:54:46,445 I've got to be as sharp as a tack. 885 00:54:46,445 --> 00:54:52,255 I've got to make sure I'm giving the best feedback, mortgage advice to my consumer. 886 00:54:52,255 --> 00:54:58,185 Because not only if I don't, it's my license, but also I want that consumer 887 00:54:58,185 --> 00:54:58,695 happy. 888 00:54:58,695 --> 00:55:02,485 And I want that consumer, that client to be a life client. 889 00:55:02,485 --> 00:55:05,315 I want that person to come back to me for another refinance. 890 00:55:05,315 --> 00:55:08,325 I want that person to come back to buy their second property and to buy their 891 00:55:08,325 --> 00:55:08,825 car. 892 00:55:08,825 --> 00:55:10,241 I want them to refer their... 893 00:55:10,241 --> 00:55:13,601 their son and their daughter, their mom and their dad, they're best made at a 894 00:55:13,601 --> 00:55:14,200 barbecue. 895 00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:16,721 So I have got to deliver. 896 00:55:16,721 --> 00:55:20,501 I've got to give them the best product and I've got to give them what they're looking 897 00:55:20,501 --> 00:55:26,181 for and I've got to do it as cheap as possible and I've got to be there on the 898 00:55:26,181 --> 00:55:28,381 phone with them whenever they need anything. 899 00:55:28,381 --> 00:55:32,801 And there are great, like yourself, there are great brokers out there that do that. 900 00:55:33,461 --> 00:55:35,417 And banks can't compete with that. 901 00:55:35,631 --> 00:55:37,301 no, no, most definitely not. 902 00:55:37,301 --> 00:55:42,171 And they don't operate with the same responsible lending obligations that that 903 00:55:42,171 --> 00:55:43,211 brokers have to. 904 00:55:43,211 --> 00:55:48,951 We are we have credit licenses and and we're credit reps and we have obligations 905 00:55:48,951 --> 00:55:50,801 that we have to live by. 906 00:55:50,801 --> 00:55:51,531 They don't. 907 00:55:51,531 --> 00:55:56,431 You can be a banker and have no credit license and no credit rep and not have to 908 00:55:56,431 --> 00:55:58,801 operate on the best interest duty or responsible lending. 909 00:55:58,801 --> 00:56:01,391 So they can do things which they shouldn't be doing. 910 00:56:01,391 --> 00:56:03,425 And obviously, I can't account for. 911 00:56:03,437 --> 00:56:04,637 for everyone. 912 00:56:05,257 --> 00:56:09,037 But in terms of the debt negotiation industry, you mentioned earlier about 913 00:56:09,037 --> 00:56:09,797 licensing. 914 00:56:09,797 --> 00:56:14,917 Is there actually a specific license for debt negotiation that consumers or even 915 00:56:14,917 --> 00:56:20,264 business owners as well need to be asking when they're calling around? 916 00:56:20,377 --> 00:56:20,697 Yep. 917 00:56:20,697 --> 00:56:24,337 There is, there is now, if they don't have a license, don't deal with them. 918 00:56:24,337 --> 00:56:29,657 That's critical because there's a reason why they don't have a debt management or 919 00:56:29,657 --> 00:56:35,517 debt intermediary license with ASIC is because they didn't pass, you know, and, 920 00:56:35,517 --> 00:56:38,337 and, and there'd be a reason for that. 921 00:56:38,337 --> 00:56:41,497 ASIC didn't pass them to have a license. 922 00:56:41,497 --> 00:56:44,697 And that's fairly recent and lasts like four years. 923 00:56:44,697 --> 00:56:47,617 We've had a credit license since 2009. 924 00:56:47,617 --> 00:56:53,437 because not that we needed it, but we felt that because we work with financial 925 00:56:53,437 --> 00:56:56,837 specialists like planners and accountants and brokers. 926 00:56:57,357 --> 00:57:04,857 Not only should you, you got to be not only doing the right thing, but you got to 927 00:57:04,857 --> 00:57:06,877 be seen to be doing the right thing. 928 00:57:06,877 --> 00:57:13,647 And so we've been open to any kind of ASIC audit since then. 929 00:57:13,647 --> 00:57:15,917 We've never been audited, which is great. 930 00:57:17,089 --> 00:57:19,409 Hopefully we never will, but anyway. 931 00:57:20,229 --> 00:57:27,289 But having a license has built our credibility within the finance industry. 932 00:57:27,349 --> 00:57:33,429 And only in the last four years, but there are many, many more negotiators, some of 933 00:57:33,429 --> 00:57:38,269 them just kind of starting out without any experience at all and not delivering 934 00:57:38,269 --> 00:57:38,569 great. 935 00:57:38,569 --> 00:57:42,589 So there've been so many complaints about this industry that assets just put their 936 00:57:42,589 --> 00:57:45,601 foot down and said, right, we're going to put a license requirement. 937 00:57:45,601 --> 00:57:49,621 and you've got to be compliant to this process now, which is great news. 938 00:57:49,621 --> 00:57:55,981 And so we had to transition our existing license that we have for 10 years over to 939 00:57:55,981 --> 00:57:57,331 the debt management license. 940 00:57:57,331 --> 00:58:00,381 So they've got to have a debt management license. 941 00:58:00,961 --> 00:58:03,981 There'd be issue with the license number, so you'll know it. 942 00:58:04,321 --> 00:58:11,601 So you just ask about that and maybe do some research on their background to help 943 00:58:11,601 --> 00:58:13,849 you make a decision on whether to deal with them or not. 944 00:58:14,475 --> 00:58:21,235 Yeah, and for the listeners that do want to connect with you and your team, what's 945 00:58:21,235 --> 00:58:23,315 the best way they can find you? 946 00:58:23,835 --> 00:58:26,815 Do their research about you even. 947 00:58:27,821 --> 00:58:29,581 reviews are really good. 948 00:58:29,581 --> 00:58:35,581 Have a look at the Google reviews because they're hard to fake, though it's not 949 00:58:35,581 --> 00:58:36,701 foolproof. 950 00:58:36,961 --> 00:58:43,781 So you can look at Google reviews, but just go on Google in general, put the 951 00:58:43,781 --> 00:58:50,321 company name and put in complaint and see if there's any Google notation or any 952 00:58:50,321 --> 00:58:52,449 public record around any complaints. 953 00:58:52,449 --> 00:58:59,509 You can have a look on the ASIC website and to see if there's any issues with that 954 00:58:59,509 --> 00:59:01,029 company with ASIC. 955 00:59:02,049 --> 00:59:05,769 But ASIC is playing catch up with a lot of these companies as well. 956 00:59:06,389 --> 00:59:12,669 So there are, there's ongoing audits to some of these companies, but there's still 957 00:59:12,669 --> 00:59:13,839 some cowboys out there. 958 00:59:13,839 --> 00:59:15,559 It's still a little bit wild westy. 959 00:59:15,559 --> 00:59:17,989 It has a wild westy feel, our industry. 960 00:59:17,989 --> 00:59:21,089 And so it's all the more critical to do your homework. 961 00:59:21,089 --> 00:59:24,309 and to see if there's any complaints about that company. 962 00:59:24,309 --> 00:59:29,449 Put the company director's name in to Google and see if there's any history. 963 00:59:29,449 --> 00:59:33,509 So there's a couple of agencies out there that I'm aware of, won't mention who they 964 00:59:33,509 --> 00:59:39,789 are, but they're running successful companies, but their previous companies 965 00:59:39,789 --> 00:59:44,709 have been shut down because of the number of complaints and asset cracking down on 966 00:59:44,709 --> 00:59:45,289 them. 967 00:59:45,289 --> 00:59:48,329 And so, but you can track them through the director's name. 968 00:59:48,329 --> 00:59:50,273 You can see what history. 969 00:59:50,273 --> 00:59:51,993 is with them. 970 00:59:51,993 --> 00:59:57,433 So, but ultimately, the best way to do it after you've done all that, give them a 971 00:59:57,433 --> 00:59:58,153 call. 972 00:59:58,153 --> 00:59:59,453 Have a chat with them. 973 00:59:59,453 --> 01:00:02,053 Find out what the costs are. 974 01:00:02,713 --> 01:00:09,233 And ask them questions around the costs, the credit reporting and the ongoing 975 01:00:09,233 --> 01:00:10,293 obligation. 976 01:00:10,293 --> 01:00:16,033 And do your sons, get your calculator out and work out whether this is going to be a 977 01:00:16,033 --> 01:00:17,817 good deal for you or not. 978 01:00:18,251 --> 01:00:20,731 Yeah, that's really good advice there. 979 01:00:22,210 --> 01:00:22,591 Yeah. 980 01:00:22,591 --> 01:00:23,531 And what for? 981 01:00:23,531 --> 01:00:28,091 Like, are they that confident on their service that they can, you know, as you 982 01:00:28,091 --> 01:00:32,071 said, be incentivized to get the result, not sort of say, I've already been paid. 983 01:00:32,071 --> 01:00:34,271 It doesn't matter whether I get the result or not. 984 01:00:34,753 --> 01:00:39,493 Well, yeah, but in saying that there's a couple of good negotiators I know, and 985 01:00:39,493 --> 01:00:44,193 they say, well, we have the charge upfront because of the administration costs. 986 01:00:44,193 --> 01:00:47,073 And that's just their business model. 987 01:00:47,073 --> 01:00:48,203 And that's fine. 988 01:00:48,203 --> 01:00:52,813 I mean, they'll charge like, say, if they know the deal, it's going to cost about 989 01:00:52,813 --> 01:00:57,825 the client, about $8 ,000 to waive a significant amount of money. 990 01:00:57,825 --> 01:01:01,105 they might say, all right, well, we'll need a thousand dollars upfront. 991 01:01:01,105 --> 01:01:02,025 Okay. 992 01:01:02,025 --> 01:01:07,545 It may be refundable if we're not successful or it's a non -refundable, 993 01:01:07,545 --> 01:01:08,695 whether it was successful or not. 994 01:01:08,695 --> 01:01:11,865 That's non -refundable because that just covers, and there's a lot of 995 01:01:11,865 --> 01:01:15,135 administration behind doing this kind of thing a lot. 996 01:01:15,135 --> 01:01:16,695 And it's, it's top heavy on it. 997 01:01:16,695 --> 01:01:23,505 So, so if they charge something like that, that of itself doesn't mean that they're 998 01:01:23,505 --> 01:01:24,625 shonks. 999 01:01:24,875 --> 01:01:25,601 Yeah. 1000 01:01:25,601 --> 01:01:28,331 it's just keep that in mind, right? 1001 01:01:28,331 --> 01:01:31,861 So I know there's a couple of very, very good operators who do it that way. 1002 01:01:31,861 --> 01:01:36,643 And that's just their model that they work with. 1003 01:01:36,907 --> 01:01:38,467 Yeah, no, it's a really good point. 1004 01:01:38,467 --> 01:01:40,587 Then they don't want to also waste people's time. 1005 01:01:40,587 --> 01:01:45,347 Like if they're, if they're putting all these resources and dedicating time and 1006 01:01:45,347 --> 01:01:50,247 doing the administration and it doesn't go ahead. 1007 01:01:51,147 --> 01:01:53,126 yeah, that's, that's obviously no revenue. 1008 01:01:53,126 --> 01:01:54,567 There's time for nothing. 1009 01:01:54,587 --> 01:01:56,627 And I just had a quick search. 1010 01:01:56,627 --> 01:02:01,687 So your company is called credit mediation service, proprietary limited. 1011 01:02:01,687 --> 01:02:02,607 Is that the one? 1012 01:02:02,607 --> 01:02:04,287 And no West. 1013 01:02:04,961 --> 01:02:07,523 Yep, that's the one. 1014 01:02:07,523 --> 01:02:09,523 reviews, all five star. 1015 01:02:10,683 --> 01:02:11,523 Exactly a hundred. 1016 01:02:11,523 --> 01:02:12,863 It's impressive. 1017 01:02:13,993 --> 01:02:14,361 one. 1018 01:02:14,361 --> 01:02:15,041 four star. 1019 01:02:15,041 --> 01:02:19,069 One of them is a four star and the rest are five stars. 1020 01:02:19,435 --> 01:02:21,615 Okay, four still pretty good. 1021 01:02:21,615 --> 01:02:23,095 But that's that's pretty impressive. 1022 01:02:23,095 --> 01:02:29,035 Like you would think I think if you looked up other mediation services, there'd be 1023 01:02:29,035 --> 01:02:30,775 some some negative reviews there. 1024 01:02:30,775 --> 01:02:33,155 So that's a red flag for sure. 1025 01:02:33,155 --> 01:02:35,919 But it's don't just base it off of that, right? 1026 01:02:36,137 --> 01:02:41,917 yeah, there's some good ones out there who've got pretty good five -star reviews. 1027 01:02:42,717 --> 01:02:48,637 And truth be told, it's really hard getting to that level because I'm in 1028 01:02:48,637 --> 01:02:52,797 financial trouble and it gets fixed for me and I'm a little bit embarrassed about it, 1029 01:02:52,797 --> 01:02:53,137 right? 1030 01:02:53,137 --> 01:02:55,037 And understandably, I would be. 1031 01:02:55,037 --> 01:02:57,267 And then I'm asked to give a Google review. 1032 01:02:57,267 --> 01:03:03,073 That's a public declaration that of being, you know, of, of, 1033 01:03:03,073 --> 01:03:07,153 had some challenges with my finances and I've got someone to fix it. 1034 01:03:07,313 --> 01:03:12,673 So, so most people don't do a Google review for that reason. 1035 01:03:12,893 --> 01:03:15,213 So the fact that we've got a hundred is great. 1036 01:03:15,213 --> 01:03:16,233 Yeah, it's great. 1037 01:03:16,233 --> 01:03:23,423 But, but there's 10 times that who we've assisted, who opted not to do a review, 1038 01:03:23,423 --> 01:03:25,573 which is, which is understandable. 1039 01:03:26,113 --> 01:03:26,651 Yeah. 1040 01:03:26,651 --> 01:03:27,511 really good. 1041 01:03:27,511 --> 01:03:34,351 So my question before we wrap it up, I wanted to ask you about your your TEDx 1042 01:03:34,351 --> 01:03:34,831 talk. 1043 01:03:34,831 --> 01:03:37,291 I saw that you did a TEDx talk. 1044 01:03:37,291 --> 01:03:40,221 Can you share a little bit about that? 1045 01:03:40,221 --> 01:03:45,311 So when the listeners want to watch that video, they can. 1046 01:03:46,657 --> 01:03:52,257 Okay, all right, so I'm gonna get my head out of finance and into suicide. 1047 01:03:53,077 --> 01:03:57,277 The two are kind of linked in some ways, but not so much in other ways. 1048 01:03:57,277 --> 01:03:58,265 All right. 1049 01:03:59,937 --> 01:04:00,825 So. 1050 01:04:02,561 --> 01:04:09,821 The Victor, the reason why I did this TEDx talk is because there in our line of work 1051 01:04:09,821 --> 01:04:16,781 in finance, you will often see people who are in a very dark place because they're 1052 01:04:16,781 --> 01:04:21,641 needing to get through the difficult times that they're experiencing. 1053 01:04:21,641 --> 01:04:28,181 And when they're going through those difficult times, they think about exit 1054 01:04:28,181 --> 01:04:30,361 strategies, right? 1055 01:04:31,585 --> 01:04:33,725 for lack of a better term. 1056 01:04:36,289 --> 01:04:42,809 Okay, so I've been working with Lifeline for 15 years and I used to train Lifeline 1057 01:04:42,809 --> 01:04:47,289 counselors, new Lifeline counselors on suicide training and mental health. 1058 01:04:48,169 --> 01:04:56,129 And out of all the suicide calls I've taken, I don't think I've met anyone who 1059 01:04:56,129 --> 01:05:01,269 wants their life to end, but they want their pain to end. 1060 01:05:01,649 --> 01:05:03,393 That's the thing. 1061 01:05:03,393 --> 01:05:04,853 They want their pain to end. 1062 01:05:04,853 --> 01:05:07,133 They don't want their life to end. 1063 01:05:07,133 --> 01:05:12,313 They're thinking about ending their life because they're dealing with their pain. 1064 01:05:13,673 --> 01:05:21,433 And so what a suicide call is about is direct intervention to ensure that they're 1065 01:05:21,433 --> 01:05:23,453 safe and then dealing with the pain. 1066 01:05:23,453 --> 01:05:28,113 And a counselor and a psychologist will work on this pain that's pushing them 1067 01:05:28,113 --> 01:05:30,115 towards the suicide. 1068 01:05:31,649 --> 01:05:44,669 So with that TEDx talk, it was more about how it is that what lessons we can take 1069 01:05:44,669 --> 01:05:51,029 from people to deal with those suicidal thoughts. 1070 01:05:51,109 --> 01:05:53,669 So what lessons can we take? 1071 01:05:56,769 --> 01:06:00,749 For example, so I'll just have to think about, cause I did the TEDx talk about a 1072 01:06:00,749 --> 01:06:04,609 year and a half ago and I had to think about what I said. 1073 01:06:04,969 --> 01:06:10,629 So through the, when we're in this dark place and we are feeling like that we want 1074 01:06:10,629 --> 01:06:14,669 this pain to end, what do I do? 1075 01:06:14,669 --> 01:06:16,989 What kind of intervention do I need? 1076 01:06:16,989 --> 01:06:22,709 And there's a number of things that I can do, but ultimately what I think about is 1077 01:06:22,709 --> 01:06:26,301 the time where I was at my happiest. 1078 01:06:27,165 --> 01:06:34,725 So the, was it Oxford, British or was it was Yale University that had been doing 1079 01:06:34,725 --> 01:06:36,645 this long running survey. 1080 01:06:36,645 --> 01:06:45,065 They picked out, they picked out over a hundred young men who, and engaged in 1081 01:06:45,065 --> 01:06:46,875 mental health, gave them the questionnaire. 1082 01:06:46,875 --> 01:06:48,725 This was before World War II. 1083 01:06:48,725 --> 01:06:55,125 And one of the participants was JFK, the president of the United States, but when 1084 01:06:55,125 --> 01:06:56,321 he was a young man. 1085 01:06:56,321 --> 01:07:01,581 And they and every few years, I think it was every four years, they'll touch base 1086 01:07:01,581 --> 01:07:03,721 with them to see where their mental health is. 1087 01:07:03,721 --> 01:07:07,421 And over the years, they've been doing that since the 30s. 1088 01:07:07,421 --> 01:07:10,601 And some of those men are still alive today. 1089 01:07:10,601 --> 01:07:13,201 Very few of them, but they're still surveying them. 1090 01:07:13,201 --> 01:07:17,261 And it's the longest running survey in history, as far as we can tell. 1091 01:07:17,261 --> 01:07:22,387 And one of the questions that they ask is what makes you happy? 1092 01:07:22,433 --> 01:07:27,353 And the answers to those questions like that, as you can imagine, are evolving. 1093 01:07:28,133 --> 01:07:34,753 And ultimately, at the end of the day, what the survey has concluded is, the big 1094 01:07:34,753 --> 01:07:37,793 question is, what makes us happy? 1095 01:07:38,153 --> 01:07:46,153 And the ultimate answer on what makes us happy is to have people in our life who 1096 01:07:46,153 --> 01:07:49,273 love us, and we love them. 1097 01:07:50,753 --> 01:07:56,833 That's ultimately what makes us happy is the intimate connection that we have with 1098 01:07:56,833 --> 01:08:03,013 another human being, be it husband, wife, be it brother, sister, mom and dad and 1099 01:08:03,013 --> 01:08:04,213 children. 1100 01:08:05,193 --> 01:08:09,823 There's there's a ex palliative care nurse, Bonnie. 1101 01:08:09,823 --> 01:08:11,023 She wrote a book. 1102 01:08:11,023 --> 01:08:16,313 She's an Australian nurse and she spent many years with in palliative care, caring 1103 01:08:16,313 --> 01:08:17,217 for people. 1104 01:08:17,217 --> 01:08:19,827 at the last stages of her life and of their life. 1105 01:08:19,827 --> 01:08:26,037 And she wrote a book on the five things, the five greatest regrets people have 1106 01:08:26,037 --> 01:08:27,677 before they die. 1107 01:08:27,937 --> 01:08:34,617 And, and ultimately, it's top of the list is I wish I reached out to my loved ones 1108 01:08:34,617 --> 01:08:35,137 more. 1109 01:08:35,137 --> 01:08:38,417 I wish I spent more time with my friends. 1110 01:08:39,017 --> 01:08:43,817 No, I wish I did the things that I wanted to do, like travel the world, horseback 1111 01:08:43,817 --> 01:08:44,673 riding. 1112 01:08:44,673 --> 01:08:49,853 live by the beach or live in the country or live in the city, wherever I wish I 1113 01:08:49,853 --> 01:08:53,993 fulfilled their goals, spent time with the people that they loved. 1114 01:08:53,993 --> 01:08:56,683 You know, they were the two top things. 1115 01:08:56,683 --> 01:09:00,393 What wasn't on there was I wish I spent more time in the office. 1116 01:09:00,393 --> 01:09:01,913 I wish I made more money. 1117 01:09:01,913 --> 01:09:05,093 No, that wasn't on the list at all. 1118 01:09:05,093 --> 01:09:09,561 And so the central feature of the TEDx Talk Victor was... 1119 01:09:11,809 --> 01:09:18,249 The lessons that we learn from the dying and the suicides, people who are 1120 01:09:18,249 --> 01:09:22,569 considering suicide, what life lessons can we learn from that to make us happier? 1121 01:09:22,569 --> 01:09:26,929 And that is this, you think about a time in your life when you're at your most 1122 01:09:26,929 --> 01:09:27,929 happiest. 1123 01:09:28,269 --> 01:09:34,269 Think about when you're going for a walk in the forest or whether you're with your 1124 01:09:34,269 --> 01:09:40,097 family at Christmas time or whether you're on the beach. 1125 01:09:40,097 --> 01:09:43,337 or whether you're, et cetera, whatever it, just fill the gap. 1126 01:09:43,337 --> 01:09:49,207 And you think about that time and you might not have that moment right now. 1127 01:09:49,207 --> 01:09:50,847 You might be estranged from your family. 1128 01:09:50,847 --> 01:09:53,697 You might be living away from the beach or what have you. 1129 01:09:53,697 --> 01:09:59,597 But you think about that time and how is it that I can re -navigate myself back 1130 01:09:59,597 --> 01:10:01,457 into that place again? 1131 01:10:01,897 --> 01:10:04,497 How is it that I can do that? 1132 01:10:04,857 --> 01:10:08,897 And, and, or the best way I can. 1133 01:10:08,897 --> 01:10:10,707 that would shadow that place? 1134 01:10:10,707 --> 01:10:16,377 Because my happiest time might be when I'm with my mum at Christmas time. 1135 01:10:16,377 --> 01:10:18,977 My mum's passed, so I can't do that anymore. 1136 01:10:18,977 --> 01:10:21,967 But how is it that I can have a shadow of that? 1137 01:10:21,967 --> 01:10:24,177 It might be with my immediate family. 1138 01:10:24,177 --> 01:10:25,637 It might be with my children. 1139 01:10:25,637 --> 01:10:27,957 It might be a close friendship. 1140 01:10:27,957 --> 01:10:36,317 So how is it that I can almost live those happiest times, but do it in context to my 1141 01:10:36,317 --> 01:10:37,197 life today? 1142 01:10:37,197 --> 01:10:38,593 That's essentially the... 1143 01:10:38,593 --> 01:10:42,549 the guts of my presentation through TEDx. 1144 01:10:42,891 --> 01:10:44,931 Yeah, thank you for sharing that. 1145 01:10:44,931 --> 01:10:46,451 I know it's a dark topic. 1146 01:10:46,451 --> 01:10:54,651 And I'm sure it's a lot of people have had some exposure to to suicide, especially 1147 01:10:54,651 --> 01:10:57,611 through COVID or loved ones that they've lost through that. 1148 01:10:57,611 --> 01:11:02,211 And and it's interesting that earlier on, at the beginning of the interview, you 1149 01:11:02,211 --> 01:11:08,171 mentioned that you used to do collections, and then you would also help people via 1150 01:11:08,171 --> 01:11:08,811 lifeline. 1151 01:11:08,811 --> 01:11:10,379 And it's like, 1152 01:11:10,379 --> 01:11:16,499 you realize the correlation with being, you know, somewhat of the cause of why 1153 01:11:16,499 --> 01:11:21,959 people would consider suicide because of the pain and the pressure that got created 1154 01:11:21,959 --> 01:11:23,359 from all the debt that they were in. 1155 01:11:23,359 --> 01:11:27,399 And when you're knocking on the door as a collection agent, you have to kind of put 1156 01:11:27,399 --> 01:11:29,239 up an emotional wall, right? 1157 01:11:29,239 --> 01:11:31,083 Because if you don't, you're it. 1158 01:11:31,083 --> 01:11:35,223 you're at stake and you're going to have empathy and not let them get away, let 1159 01:11:35,223 --> 01:11:36,863 them get away without paying back anything. 1160 01:11:36,863 --> 01:11:41,543 So you've found that bridge, which is the debt negotiation. 1161 01:11:41,543 --> 01:11:46,143 It's like now you can actually represent clients directly, not representing someone 1162 01:11:46,143 --> 01:11:53,643 that wants the money from them, but actually help them solve the pain around 1163 01:11:53,643 --> 01:11:54,187 debt. 1164 01:11:54,187 --> 01:11:57,227 And like I said, my mom was in that she nearly had a nervous breakdown. 1165 01:11:57,227 --> 01:12:02,447 And by being able to alleviate that pain, not only are you getting them away from 1166 01:12:02,447 --> 01:12:09,927 thoughts of suicide, but you're reuniting them with peace and harmony and love with 1167 01:12:09,927 --> 01:12:12,297 with their with their family, right? 1168 01:12:12,297 --> 01:12:18,047 And their and their loved ones, because now that's no longer a burden between 1169 01:12:18,047 --> 01:12:20,647 them, or creating a gap between them. 1170 01:12:20,647 --> 01:12:22,487 Now you can bring them back together. 1171 01:12:22,607 --> 01:12:24,141 So yeah, I just want to 1172 01:12:24,141 --> 01:12:29,761 acknowledge you for that and you know the good work that you're doing and yeah if 1173 01:12:29,761 --> 01:12:34,081 any if I have clients that are in that situation most definitely I'll be sending 1174 01:12:34,081 --> 01:12:36,035 them your way. 1175 01:12:36,865 --> 01:12:37,945 Thanks, Victor. 1176 01:12:38,705 --> 01:12:39,195 Thanks. 1177 01:12:39,195 --> 01:12:40,389 It was good chatting. 1178 01:12:41,003 --> 01:12:43,263 Yeah, it's really, really good to have you on. 1179 01:12:43,263 --> 01:12:45,463 I know we mentioned the name of your company. 1180 01:12:45,463 --> 01:12:49,083 So if the listeners want to find you, if they want to connect to you on social 1181 01:12:49,083 --> 01:12:51,962 media, are you active on on the socials? 1182 01:12:52,353 --> 01:12:58,453 Not overly, I'm telling my age, I'm kind of impatient with the whole social media 1183 01:12:58,453 --> 01:13:00,413 thing, although I'm on LinkedIn. 1184 01:13:01,273 --> 01:13:06,673 Probably the best way to reach out to us is via our website, w .creditmediation 1185 01:13:06,673 --> 01:13:14,593 .com .au, or you can reach out to me directly, lhugo, H -U -G -O, at 1186 01:13:14,593 --> 01:13:17,805 creditmediation .com .au. 1187 01:13:18,699 --> 01:13:19,379 Awesome. 1188 01:13:19,379 --> 01:13:20,259 Thanks, Lawrence. 1189 01:13:20,259 --> 01:13:25,639 And if anyone wants to watch his TEDx talk, you can just type in Lawrence Hugo 1190 01:13:25,639 --> 01:13:29,179 into YouTube or Google and have a watch of that. 1191 01:13:29,418 --> 01:13:31,579 So really appreciate your time. 1192 01:13:31,579 --> 01:13:32,249 Thanks again. 1193 01:13:32,249 --> 01:13:37,379 And thanks for everyone that's supporting the show and keep following and sharing 1194 01:13:37,379 --> 01:13:40,819 and liking anyone who you think can benefit from this. 1195 01:13:40,819 --> 01:13:42,659 And I'll see you in the next episode. 1196 01:13:42,699 --> 01:13:43,839 Cheers. 1197 01:13:44,419 --> 01:13:45,619 Thank you.